I was guilty of being someone like that for quite a few years. In fact, in one of the pairwork, I actually threw away my partner's work and did the project on my own and submitted it using both our names. On reflection, I was too conceited and didn't spare a thought for my partner's feelings. I tried meeeting her up a few times but was unsuccessful so I concluded that she was one of those people who just wanted to ride on me. Eventually, she gave me her share and I didn't think it was good enough. Yeah, I know I was horrible.
So you are one of those perfectionists. :D
But subsequently, I met other riders along the way and I had to do most of the job myself. In any case, I wanted good grades, so I didn't really mind the work so much. In one instance, I got really angry becos I had just sat through 9 hours of work for it and a friend in the group told me she needed to go for an interview at a drama centre for some volunteer work (out of interest) and so got no time for the project work.
Wah! this rider really got her priorities wrong in the name of volunteer work.
Another interesting encounter I had was the time when a guy in our group didn't do any work for a project and he promised to do the next project on his own and credit it to the whole group, but it turned out that he didn't do a single thing the night before the submission date! So the 3 of us, minus that rider, msn from 11pm to 6am to do that project from scratch. At one point, one of the group members dozed off.
Moral behind the story, do not accept "words credit", have it in "action cash"!!
Insider,
I'm sorry your daughter has to go through what she does. Her groupmates are terrible. They actually had the cheek to disagree with the content when they blatantly didn't do their parts and the due date for presentation was the next day.
It's harder when the lecturer wants everybody to present. I really don't know what I can suggest to help make your daughter feel better.
Actually it would be good to let the lecturer know the progress of the group in milestone approach so should anything goes really wrong, it would be good to make an alternative proposal to the lecturer on the presentation which the lecturer has alot of pre-information given along the way to consider this new alternative proposal. Anyway all these are in hindsight, just work differently in next team project.
Groupwork really sucks! What's the point of having groupwork anyway? To let those whose English is not even grammatical or those who don't know how to do the project to tap on those who are more able? To introduce 'reality' to students? It's a stupid way to do it in my opinion.
Groupwork is inevitable in real working world and at that point, it is hard to avoid. So it is good to learn in school(non-threatening environment) and devise ways to address certain issues by dealing with it and float then to drown in the real working world later where there will be more to lose in terms of performance. JMHO
I just thought at the end of the day, everybody will reap the benefit of good grades. 'Perfectionists' may not be an appropriate word becos no work is perfect, but there are works 'better' than others.
Actually it would be good to let the lecturer know the progress of the group in milestone approach so should anything goes really wrong, it would be good to make an alternative proposal to the lecturer on the presentation which the lecturer has alot of pre-information given along the way to consider this new alternative proposal. Anyway all these are in hindsight, just work differently in next team project.
Sometimes it's difficult to let the lecturer know the progress in truth. What do you want to tell the lecturer? That the rest of them are pigs and they don't do a single thing? You'll look like a witch to your groupmates and the lecturer might even ask you to sort things out yourself.
I once had a tutor who got us to write down our contributions for a project. I remember there was this guy who totally didn't do a thing but he still faked something out of nothing anyway. Then what? You go and tell the tutor he didn't do a thing? I think most of us who take everything upon ourselves are not so bold as to stand up for ourselves, and that's why we ended up taking everything upon ourselves, instead of confronting the groupmates and ask them to do something or scram.
Groupwork is inevitable in real working world and at that point, it is hard to avoid. So it is good to learn in school(non-threatening environment) and devise ways to address certain issues by dealing with it and float then to drown in the real working world later where there will be more to lose in terms of performance. JMHO
I feel that groupwork is not appropriate for works that would be graded. It's an unfair system that penalises the (er hem) kind and nice, and hardworking people.
I feel that groupwork is not appropriate for works that would be graded. It's an unfair system that penalises the (er hem) kind and nice, and hardworking people.
Groupwork sees the working of human dynamics together, with each group in its different level of maturity (primary schools, sec school, tertiary, working level, etc) and the members each has different approaches / stands to fight for ‘fairness’ (based maturity and personality of each at each level).
It will be ideal for teachers and lecturers to have some standard set of grading if a project is to be graded and all should know that riders exist in I believe every project. However, following this standard may mean more work that these teachers and lecturers are not willing to spend more time doing so (such as reading reflective papers, getting them to come up with a flow of how the project was being done, etc). To save work, many of these teaching staff may opt for the shorter cut to award all the same grade for a common project.
My daughter’s above project amounts to 25% towards her final grade and this is a lot if one were to take her grade seriously. When I advised her to feedback on her thoughts about how to make project grading fairer to the lecturer after she receives her grade for the project, she told me, “Why should I if she is a stupid lecturer? I don’t take her salary.” Well, that’s a defiant thought of hers I know. Groupwork grading can only be as fair as it can get if more were to come forward to feedback for the probable benefits of the future groups (my hunch is others may have feedback but if the teaching staff prefer to still close an eye, then writing to them is really a waste of time…)
Groupwork grading (or rather the world) is never fair in my opinion – this is what my kids have to know and adjust themselves to fit the world accordingly with school lives as the main grounds to gain experience. If unfairness cannot be corrected, then just have to tell self and accept that that is plain bad luck to be with certain undesirable people that one should not have been and move on, even she has to suffer a dent in her GPA...
PS: She came back yesterday with a moody face after the presentation and I am yet to chat with her how the presentation was. She has to learn how to accept ‘bad luck’ with grace instead of suffering a double/triple loss by feeling unnecessarily anxious / moody / frustrated / etc. Think she will mature more in this area when she meets more riders in her future projects(and realizes this is part and parcel of life…)
Groupwork grading (or rather the world) is never fair in my opinion – this is what my kids have to know and adjust themselves to fit the world accordingly with school lives as the main grounds to gain experience. If unfairness cannot be corrected, then just have to tell self and accept that that is plain bad luck to be with certain undesirable people that one should not have been and move on, even she has to suffer a dent in her GPA...
PS: She came back yesterday with a moody face after the presentation and I am yet to chat with her how the presentation was. She has to learn how to accept ‘bad luck’ with grace instead of suffering a double/triple loss by feeling unnecessarily anxious / moody / frustrated / etc. Think she will mature more in this area when she meets more riders in her future projects(and realizes this is part and parcel of life…)
I hope when my time comes to advise my daughter on riders in project work, I'll be as gracious a mother as you are.
My worst experience in a groupwork was not in doing work for riders. It was to be accused as a rider!
The girl already had a bad reputation for badmouthing just about everybody she knew and telling tutors that people she didn't agree with are riders. But the system was such that I was made to group with her and a coursemate who she was acquainted with. She tried very badly to oust me from the group and told the tutor that I refused to do my part.
It was very traumatic for me as it was the last semester and I had worked very hard in the hope of getting a good hons. I lost sleep and appetite for a week. I knew that I could forget about getting an A for that module due to the sabotage.
To 'help' us resolve the dispute, the tutor suggested that they gave me a certain part of the project to do on my own (so that their grade would not suffer if I were a rider).
The girl actually suggested that we met up just before the presentation to do some 'discussion', which I didn't turn up at all. I didn't think that she could mean well at all.
Their presentation slides had every one of them tagged 'by (their names)' so that I would look like I didn't do a single thing in the project.
At the end of the course, I realised that these two are just 'average' materials. They didn't even secure the last category of hons. To think the girl had the cheek to tell me,"Don't get an A at our expense." probably meaning "Don't make use of us to get an A." Some people really don't know where they stand.
DS told me this after reading the posts here.
" Mom, it is common, it always happen to me. My classmates will always push all the work to me and I am expected to finish the project. They just give me some pictures and I will have to do the rest. Like powerpoint, writing etc etc...."
I asked him why he didn't get them involved and he told me,
" Oh, they said they don't know how to do powerpoint and they are not computer saavy like me "
The main point is DS wants to complete the project and has to do it irregardless he likes it or not.
Like he said, if everyone keeps pushing to everyone, the project won't be completed on time and he will get ZERO.
As long as the work is submitted, he doesn't mind doing most of the work.
Ds said this," The more I do, the better I am, as for my friends, if they choose not to do, then too bad for them."
Some students and parents may find group work a chore and a waste of time, especially if they have to contend with team members who are lazy, irresponsible, aggressive in their ideas (everyone must listen to his ideas) and those who practise NATO (no action, talk [a lot] only).
In the end, it is usually the responsible team member(s) who spend more time fire fighting and coordinating the work than producing quality work itself.
However, that is not to say that group work is not without its benefits and learning values. Here are some of my thoughts of group work.
Objectives of group work:
1. Teaches the students about teamwork and team spirit.
2. Teaches the students to express their ideas clearly and at the same time learn to listen to the ideas of their members too.
3. Learns to respect the opinions of others. A group work is a team effort, and it is not about the ideas of one person.
4. Learns to come to a compromise, especially if there are conflicting ideas and points. It is ok to disagree in opinions but do it in a nice and non aggressive manner. In other words, agree to disagree amicably.
5. Prepares the students for the real, working world – where they have to learn to get along well others, and manage fellow colleagues who are free riders in the adult world too.
6. Encourages peer learning – this is important as members learn from each other.
7. Helps students to understand the application of theories and concepts to the project work or theme. It is a very enriching and rewarding experience when a group is able to successfully work well together.
Winning formula of a good project team:
1. Appoint a team leader/ coordinator
- This person makes sure that the group members adhere to the schedule/ project timeline.
- Is usually the contact person that coordinates the meetings and groups activities.
- Is usually the most organised person in the group.
2. Prepare a project schedule
This will help to remind everyone to keep the project tasks on track.
3. Team members who can work well together
The work is fairly distributed or divided and everyone does his or her part of the work.
4. Appoint an Editor
- This is someone who is competent in English.
- He will be the one who compiles and edits the works of all members.
- Deadline to submit work to editor must be strictly enforced. The editor needs the time to review and edit the draft work of members.
- Submit final draft to all members for their review.
- Once members are agreeable, the final draft becomes final report and it goes to print and binding.
5. Agree on the formatting
It is hard work for the editor to compile and edit everyone’s work. One way is to agree on the format of the report. For example, agree on the font size, font type, page margins. This helps ease the workload of the editor who has the unenviable task to format and edit everyone’s work to be ready for final submission.
How to handle free riders, et al?
If the students are given free reign to choose their own team members, then the hardworking students will tend to group together, leaving the free riders to fend for themselves.
If the teacher/ lecturer pre-assigns the groups, then students have no choice but to work with members who have poor work attitude and study habits. So what can be done?
1. Inform the teacher/ lecturer early
Let the teacher/ lecturer know that so-and-so is not pulling his weight mid-way through the project. DON’T wait till the last minute. It is too late for the lecturer to counsel the recalcitrant student.
Keep a log of meetings. This will provide "evidence" to show proof that some team members are not doing their part. Otherwise, it will be your word against theirs.
2. Request for peer evaluation
Inform the lecturer that you would like to do a peer evaluation, assessing the other team members for their contribution, or lack of.
3. Be fair and objective
Be objective when giving feedback to the lecturer or in the peer evaluation form. You don’t want to come across as whining and overly complaining. It may backfire and the lecturer thinks that you are the problematic one who lacks team spirit.
4. Need to handle free riders firmly
Don’t threaten them (again, it may backfire and they may complain about you to the lecturer or see you as bossy). But need to firmly tell them the consequence if they do not put in effort.
5. Don't let the free rider do all the important work
If there is a "known" free rider in the group, avoid distributing major/ important work to this this person. It may help to strategise. For example, give them the easy bits, like get them to work on introduction or background information; or do the easy questions. The rationale being that since these free riders are doing "less important" work, the damage control is minimised if they don't do their part at all.
However, if this is a new group and one is unable to determine if there are any free riders in the beginning, then the responsible group members have to be firm with the free rider when the issues emerge.
At the end of the day, it is important to remember that this is a GROUP project, which means that the all the ideas/ answers in the report must flow in a logical manner. Too often, students treat group work as a collection of individual answers being compiled as a single group report. Hence, the role of the editor is important as he ties everyone's points together.
Some students and parents may find group work a chore and a waste of time, especially if they have to contend with team members who are lazy, irresponsible, aggressive in their ideas (everyone must listen to his ideas) and those who practise NATO (no action, talk [a lot] only).
In the end, it is usually the responsible team member(s) who spend more time fire fighting and coordinating the work than producing quality work itself.
However, that is not to say that group work is not without its benefits and learning values. Here are some of my thoughts of group work.
Objectives of group work:
1. Teaches the students about teamwork and team spirit.
2. Teaches the students to express their ideas clearly and at the same time learn to listen to the ideas of their members too.
3. Learns to respect the opinions of others. A group work is a team effort, and it is not about the ideas of one person.
4. Learns to come to a compromise, especially if there are conflicting ideas and points. It is ok to disagree in opinions but do it in a nice and non aggressive manner. In other words, agree to disagree amicably.
5. Prepares the students for the real, working world – where they have to learn to get along well others, and manage fellow colleagues who are free riders in the adult world too.
6. Encourages peer learning – this is important as members learn from each other.
7. Helps students to understand the application of theories and concepts to the project work or theme. It is a very enriching and rewarding experience when a group is able to successfully work well together.
Winning formula of a good project team:
1. Appoint a team leader/ coordinator
- This person makes sure that the group members adhere to the schedule/ project timeline.
- Is usually the contact person that coordinates the meetings and groups activities.
- Is usually the most organised person in the group.
2. Prepare a project schedule
This will help to remind everyone to keep the project tasks on track.
3. Team members who can work well together
The work is fairly distributed or divided and everyone does his or her part of the work.
4. Appoint an Editor
- This is someone who is competent in English.
- He will be the one who compiles and edits the works of all members.
- Deadline to submit work to editor must be strictly enforced. The editor needs the time to review and edit the draft work of members.
- Submit final draft to all members for their review.
- Once members are agreeable, the final draft becomes final report and it goes to print and binding.
5. Agree on the formatting
It is hard work for the editor to compile and edit everyone’s work. One way is to agree on the format of the report. For example, agree on the font size, font type, page margins. This helps ease the workload of the editor who has the unenviable task to format and edit everyone’s work to be ready for final submission.
How to handle free riders, et al?
If the students are given free reign to choose their own team members, then the hardworking students will tend to group together, leaving the free riders to fend for themselves.
If the teacher/ lecturer pre-assigns the groups, then students have no choice but to work with members who have poor work attitude and study habits. So what can be done?
1. Inform the teacher/ lecturer early
Let the teacher/ lecturer know that so-and-so is not pulling his weight mid-way through the project. DON’T wait till the last minute. It is too late for the lecturer to counsel the recalcitrant student.
Keep a log of meetings. This will provide "evidence" to show proof that some team members are not doing their part. Otherwise, it will be your word against theirs.
2. Request for peer evaluation
Inform the lecturer that you would like to do a peer evaluation, assessing the other team members for their contribution, or lack of.
3. Be fair and objective
Be objective when giving feedback to the lecturer or in the peer evaluation form. You don’t want to come across as whining and overly complaining. It may backfire and the lecturer thinks that you are the problematic one who lacks team spirit.
4. Need to handle free riders firmly
Don’t threaten them (again, it may backfire and they may complain about you to the lecturer or see you as bossy). But need to firmly tell them the consequence if they do not put in effort.
5. Don't let the free rider do all the important work
If there is a "known" free rider in the group, avoid distributing major/ important work to this this person. It may help to strategise. For example, give them the easy bits, like get them to work on introduction or background information; or do the easy questions. The rationale being that since these free riders are doing "less important" work, the damage control is minimised if they don't do their part at all.
However, if this is a new group and one is unable to determine if there are any free riders in the beginning, then the responsible group members have to be firm with the free rider when the issues emerge.
At the end of the day, it is important to remember that this is a GROUP project, which means that the all the ideas/ answers in the report must flow in a logical manner. Too often, students treat group work as a collection of individual answers being compiled as a single group report. Hence, the role of the editor is important as he ties everyone's points together.
Hope the above pointers help, and good luck!
ChiefKS,
Don't know if this is possible/allowed, but can/may I nominate Schweppes' response/pointers for portal publication . I believe parents will benefit from this and be able to guide their children and prevent them from facing or when they face similar problems in grpwork.
This 'rider' issue is a inherent problem, and pupils (particularly in pri and sec schs) who are doing project work need to know there are alternative avenues for them should they wish to do something about it rather than suffer in silence.
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At the end of the day, he will be the one who will benefit from all the learning.
