Talking about Death ...

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ammonite
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by ammonite » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:38 pm

starlight1968sg wrote:I don’t think any would be happy when one is dying. It is just acceptance of a life cycle.
Those with incurable disease or are incapacitated or are in great pain see death as a release. I think it is possible to be happy and content at the end of life. The most cruel thing is to drag it out painfully for the dying because others cannot accept it.

There was an Australian scientist who chose legal euthanasia because of his old age and fading faculties. His family members all went to send him off at the airport.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/austral ... 4zed8.html

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:45 pm

ammonite wrote:
starlight1968sg wrote:I don’t think any would be happy when one is dying. It is just acceptance of a life cycle.
Those with incurable disease or are incapacitated or are in great pain see death as a release. I think it is possible to be happy and content at the end of life. The most cruel thing is to drag it out painfully for the dying because others cannot accept it.

No lah, ammonite, my elderly will not think abt euthanasia. Maybe he'll request for a good holiday as a lady fun thing to do in life.

The family is able to accept it esp FIL health complications at his age. FIL is not able to face it, even when doc said no overload his pulmonary fluid overload now. He'll stress us up by lying the doc allows him all fruits except watermelon & bully MIL to bring. Even when nurse put up big sign, printed in red, coz they discovered ano mobile patient helping him buy coffee fr Kopitiam at the stall within hospital compounds.

Monday he was trying to prove point tt he's better by lifting off his oxygen tube when nephew tried put it back on, he said we can watch he can do w/o for next 15 mins. Now he claims doc allows him to be discharged. We recognized we'll hv a long journey with FIL.

ammonite
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by ammonite » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:05 pm

Sorry, I was replying to Starlight on a different point, I was not commenting on your situation which I do not know well.
I have gone through a few deaths, and people are always more patient with dying children than dying elderly though there are a lot of similarities between both groups. Somehow elderly are supposed to not be needy, or frightened, or express pain and confusion. Maybe it is an Asian thing, or maybe less baggage with children, I'm not sure. If I do comment, my only comment will be to pass on what another doc said - think not just of the illness but of the whole person.

starlight1968sg
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by starlight1968sg » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:09 pm

Ammonite
I certainly understand and agree that it is better to die earlier or faster if one is suffering.
What is the point of going thru a hell of miseries when the end is still the same?
Having said that, it is still unbearable to see our loved ones dying.

phtthp
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by phtthp » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:18 pm

what is the purpose of life, to await suffering from sickness when one is old & death ?


starlight1968sg
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by starlight1968sg » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:26 pm

phtthp wrote:what is the purpose of life, to await suffering from sickness when one is old & death ?
Do we have a choice? We can’t choose to die

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:45 pm

We don't hv a choice when the particular elderly refused to follow doc's orders (refused dialysis, will lie to get the outside food they want & not accept the "no outside food or drinks" meant for him kept claiming nurse put wrongly by his bed, will not cooperate to reduce fluid built up in lungs) but will find his own cures fr cordycep as a cure.

I'm not addressing the wish to hv his cordycep son but more on the struggle to cooperate with medical staff & hope to maintain a good level of recovery. Obviously, w/o cooperation there's a lot more delays & prolong of suffering.

Obviously, FIL is confusing himself btwn wants desperately to life & getting proper medical help. I don't know, probably self-denial of sorts.

Btw, if a patient insists in getting discharged despite doc's adv against, there's nothing to stop him if he signs his own discharge. Nobody can stop the patient, just as no one can forced them to accept any form of treatment. The hospital & docs will absolve themselves fr responsibilities once patient sign against medical advice. It'll be documented.

zac's mum
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by zac's mum » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:11 pm

Esteema, sometimes our parents’ generation have a fear of hospitals and Western medicine because they don’t understand or believe that doctors and nurses are trying to help them.

My FIL behaved very similarly to yours. And it is apparently very common behavior in hospitals. We saw many others in the ward showing such behavior. Can’t blame them if the doctors don’t speak their dialect, or don’t even speak Mandarin, or use medical jargon without any promises. DH explained it to me that the old folks have an irrational fear that staying in hospital for long term means they will die there. Hence their insistence to be discharged ASAP, or they want to eat their favorite foods, tear out their tubes etc so that they can “be like a healthy person”.

It is hard for family members to comprehend or manage the huge disconnect between their TCM beliefs and Western-style hospital treatments. We have been thru that stage. You can only pray...pray for his suffering to lessen. Pray for him to have peace with whatever “thought demons” he is battling within himself. Pray for a miracle...pray for his Salvation so that he will know the “other side” is not more suffering, but a wonderful healthy glowing new body to look forward to in heaven. That will give him hope instead of more darkness.

May your family grow closer together during this time, instead of growing apart from any disagreements. Jiayou! :kiss:

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:00 pm

zac's mum wrote:Esteema, sometimes our parents’ generation have a fear of hospitals and Western medicine because they don’t understand or believe that doctors and nurses are trying to help them.

....

It is hard for family members to comprehend or manage the huge disconnect between their TCM beliefs and Western-style hospital treatments. We have been thru that stage. You can only pray...pray for his suffering to lessen. Pray for him to have peace with whatever “thought demons” he is battling within himself. Pray for a miracle...pray for his Salvation so that he will know the “other side” is not more suffering, but a wonderful healthy glowing new body to look forward to in heaven. That will give him hope instead of more darkness.

May your family grow closer together during this time, instead of growing apart from any disagreements. Jiayou! :kiss:

Thank you zac's mum, for your love & concern. :love: So far, the family rallying to support MIL. It's hard when FIL bully & lie to her, bond her emotionally to her wifey duties & stressing her.

We're not against Chinese treatment, but not w/o medically documented or evidence-base treatment. TCM is only been accepted not very long ago & I believe it has to work within framework of comprehensive medical knowledge, not piece meal. S'time back some lines of Cordyceps supplies hv been banned by the govt. As FIL hv other heart, lungs & kidney complications, the concern is not to take oral medication w/o knowing how it'll interact in his alr age-battered body system.

All his children & grandchildren had tried to share with him the promise of eternity with no tears, no pain, no suffering but a glowing Spirit that sings praises all day long. His Salvation is in our hearts & we've been praying for the Holy Spirit's work to unveil Satan's lies in his life. God's timing is impt.

The whole family incl our children are learning to be extra kind & gentle to his feelings w/o compromising his health. I'm waiting for an old frd's call to see if she can help get a vacancy for FIL to get into Ng Teng Fong/Jurong Community Hospital. The one at Alexandra is now run by NUH Health Grp & hv not been approved for Comm Hosp purpose. :xedfingers:

ammonite
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by ammonite » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:16 am

Esteema, religion is a really touchy subject and I really don’t want to say too much, but if your FIL is a freethinker, he may be more encouraged and feel more supported by setting goals for leaving hospital even if he is not going to get better.

As phtthp pointed out, finding meaning in old age and poor health can be a challenge in itself. One dialysis patient I know gave up and starved herself to death. Another wanted to eat himself to death, living “normally”, than live longer in a “meaningless” way, leaving his spouse very distressed indeed.

Which stage of kidney failure is your FIL at?

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