Talking about Death ...

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ammonite
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by ammonite » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:32 am

starlight1968sg wrote: Having said that, it is still unbearable to see our loved ones dying.
That is testimony to the love that you share.

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:12 am

ammonite wrote:Esteema, religion is a really touchy subject and I really don’t want to say too much, but if your FIL is a freethinker, he may be more encouraged and feel more supported by setting goals for leaving hospital even if he is not going to get better.

As phtthp pointed out, finding meaning in old age and poor health can be a challenge in itself. One dialysis patient I know gave up and starved herself to death. Another wanted to eat himself to death, living “normally”, than live longer in a “meaningless” way, leaving his spouse very distressed indeed.

Which stage of kidney failure is your FIL at?

Ammonite,

No worries if u've not got the full pic to ustand our angst in managing FIL. He has no goals to cooperate with doc & leave hospital in a safe & manageable way - he simply do not cooperate & does his own against everybody's advice running down doc''s role. It's abit like how FIL trying to be a doc to find all sorts of TCM cure on his own, not knowing how all his conditions affects him & the need to manage it carefully by cooperating with the docs. Btw, he has always been that way even when during hubby & siblings schooldays.

1. FIL has not been cooperative with the doctors to manage his health. He had refused dialysis even before this hospitalization. We didn't know before. He's been asking for outside hospital food & drinks, denying the instructions put up for it is meant for him, stressing MIL. MIL felt aggrieved being accused not getting food for him & docs trying hard to manage the mysteries where the extra fluid coming fr as it's dangerous to not hv his lungs drained of the fluid.

2. He had hidden his conditions & seeking help fr charlatons even when his conditions were early stage, causing the fact that it has worsened after his fall & hospitalization that then led to heart attacks kicked in due to overload fr his kidney tt cld not function at optimum. It's complicated to ustand, so I don't expect anyone outside the doc's conv to comprehend

3. No one is forcing any alternative religion to him. Amongst all siblings & family we've been praying for his spirit & soul.

4. MIL cannot handle him at his current state. He's been bullying MIL & the family cannot handle 2 elderly in poor state of health. The entire family is trying to function & manage his cooperation & protecting MIL.

I've been explaining as much to him as gently as I can, being firm at other times & manage his misbehavior w/o directly exposing his misdeeds to maintain his willingness to cooperate. He doesn't bully me but he does bully all other family members when I'm not present. He's been very successful in bully my BILs too rendering all others avoiding visits when they can.

I wished I did not hv to say this, but s'times when we do not plan ahead, we not only run amok grappling last straws when we realised our time is up, but causing others a harder time, which to me is very selfish & thoughtless. I do not know starving oneself does anyone any good - it's painful way to go for self & distressing (even traumatizing to see one trying to go that way). But I think empathizing others is impt, even tho u may not hv full pic, unless u're in the loop of everything that's been going on.

zac's mum
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by zac's mum » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:39 am

Sometimes to the longtime head of the household, it is a scary thing to be at a point where u feel at a total loss of control over your health, your situation, your choice of medical attention.

My FIL was like that too. He would lash out and throw things every time he fell down, even curse and swear at everybody, including my poor MIL. It was simply out of frustration. Reminds me of very young children who want to do certain things but not capable yet or not allowed to. They lapse into uncontrollable and irrational tantrums. Personality plays a part too. I think men and more liable to vent their anger in dramatic ways, compared to women. Hence the “bullying” behavior.

Hang in there Esteema! Your patience and compassion goes a long way in keeping the extended family together during this difficult time.

I do not know how I would behave if I need to be in hospital for long term. The only time I was “hospitalized” and chained down with drips and catheter tubes was when I gave birth. And those mere 3 days were quite uncomfortable and unbearable already. Can’t imagine for longer than that.

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:58 am

Thank you zac's mum for sharing yr personal journey. Appreciate. :snuggles:

DH & I kept reminding siblings it's going to be a long haul so hv to exercise slot of patience & wisdom in handling elderly. Yap, it's like 2nd childhood throwing tantrums when can't His his way. Think it's tough to be tempted when there are other patients before yr eyes free to walk over to Starbucks get their coffee, so he borrows & asks favours of other patients. Doc adv no other high fluid fruits & he'll asks for fruits - forbidden fruit tastes sweeter. Yap, tantrum why MIL keeping all the money not buy for him; why we don't encourage him to try chinese herbs when it helped other frds of his.

He's very vulnerable once he's back home on his own. He's been fooled before money times to part with :moneyflies:

We don't see dialysis as an end-life thing. It's just helping to maintain kidney function, tho can't improve or restore fully. Ppl had survived 5, 10 even >20 years on dialysis. In fact these days, dialysis hv moved fr the traditional blood dialysis (Hemodialysis) to Peridoneal Dialysis which can be done at home during sleep hours.

FantasyLandDreams
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by FantasyLandDreams » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:48 pm



zac's mum
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by zac's mum » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:59 pm

:goodpost: Thanks for sharing!

zac's mum
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by zac's mum » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:46 pm

This is my English translation of that article (with major help from Google Translate):

Talking About Life and Death

Xin Ming Daily Paper, 24 July 2018

How old should a child be when exposed to the subject of death? If a loved one dies, should the family tell the child "he died" or "he is asleep"? Xinming Daily asked the chairman of the Taiwan Life and Death Care Promotion Association, Guo Huijuan, who is also a lecturer at many universities.

Guo Huijuan: I teach life and death at the university. The first lesson, the school will ask the students to write: "How old was I the first time I thought of death?", "What happened at that time?", "That experience about life and death, what impact did it have on my views about death?"

I found that the vast majority of students think of death for the first time, in elementary school, followed by kindergarten, middle school or high school.

Most of the children said that they rarely have the opportunity to talk to their families about feelings because they have no chance, and they know that parents and elders don't like talking about death. Death has always been a taboo and unpleasant topic.

Precisely because death education is avoided and neglected, the vast majority of people in society do not know how to give appropriate care when their loved ones die. After the death of their loved ones, they don’t know how to help their families with the funeral, and they don’t know how to get through the funeral and their sorrow. Most dying people can't get the warmest and most complete blessings and a proper parting from their loved ones before they die.

Death education is not just about facing death. Facing death is only the first step. Only when you are willing to face it can you start the follow-up education and care knowledge. This is the purpose and significance of the "Death Cafe" campaign.

I agree that children's death education should be direct, honest, and not avoided. Parents or teachers can clearly explain to the child that "death means the person is never coming back, no matter how much pain/sorrow we feel, we can't change this." Letting the children learn to "face and bear" reality is a positive direction to take.

But parents and teachers should take time with their children to commemorate the departed in various ways. Perhaps they can arrange a special time to bring everyone together and recall the past, so that children can learn to forget, yet collect treasured memories in the process.

In addition, in the process of education, the school and the family will keep in touch and communicate to ensure that the child's emotions are treated with special and timely care. Parents can grieve with their children and tell their children that death is an inevitable thing. Sorrow is a normal emotion to show, but there are more things in life. We must be grateful and cherish, and then move on.

Estéema
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by Estéema » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:04 pm

谢谢你 zac's mum,

:udawoman:

Appreciate all your effort & time spent in translating FL's sharing. Had been lazy & hvnt put my mind into reading it up. Thank you.

dimewdime
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by dimewdime » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:44 pm

zac's mum wrote:This is my English translation of that article (with major help from Google Translate):

Talking About Life and Death

Xin Ming Daily Paper, 24 July 2018

How old should a child be when exposed to the subject of death? If a loved one dies, should the family tell the child "he died" or "he is asleep"? Xinming Daily asked the chairman of the Taiwan Life and Death Care Promotion Association, Guo Huijuan, who is also a lecturer at many universities.

Guo Huijuan: I teach life and death at the university. The first lesson, the school will ask the students to write: "How old was I the first time I thought of death?", "What happened at that time?", "That experience about life and death, what impact did it have on my views about death?"

I found that the vast majority of students think of death for the first time, in elementary school, followed by kindergarten, middle school or high school.

Most of the children said that they rarely have the opportunity to talk to their families about feelings because they have no chance, and they know that parents and elders don't like talking about death. Death has always been a taboo and unpleasant topic.

Precisely because death education is avoided and neglected, the vast majority of people in society do not know how to give appropriate care when their loved ones die. After the death of their loved ones, they don’t know how to help their families with the funeral, and they don’t know how to get through the funeral and their sorrow. Most dying people can't get the warmest and most complete blessings and a proper parting from their loved ones before they die.

Death education is not just about facing death. Facing death is only the first step. Only when you are willing to face it can you start the follow-up education and care knowledge. This is the purpose and significance of the "Death Cafe" campaign.

I agree that children's death education should be direct, honest, and not avoided. Parents or teachers can clearly explain to the child that "death means the person is never coming back, no matter how much pain/sorrow we feel, we can't change this." Letting the children learn to "face and bear" reality is a positive direction to take.

But parents and teachers should take time with their children to commemorate the departed in various ways. Perhaps they can arrange a special time to bring everyone together and recall the past, so that children can learn to forget, yet collect treasured memories in the process.

In addition, in the process of education, the school and the family will keep in touch and communicate to ensure that the child's emotions are treated with special and timely care. Parents can grieve with their children and tell their children that death is an inevitable thing. Sorrow is a normal emotion to show, but there are more things in life. We must be grateful and cherish, and then move on.
:thankyou: was really a good read

starlight1968sg
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Re: Talking about Death ...

Post by starlight1968sg » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:53 pm

As adults, we know once born, death is just a matter of when.
Knowing is one, coping with death of loved ones is totally another area.

I am still learning how to cope with the death of my mum.

She left but at times, I still cant believe it bec everything is just the same except she is no longer around with us.

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