PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

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PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby 3Boys » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:48 pm

He slams xenophobic and outright anti-foreigner behaviour, especially online and anonymously. He is sad that such comments do not draw more condemnation from other Singaporeans.

"We must be a caring and decent people.....have a bigger heart."

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby HVR » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:36 pm

A lot of successful social mobility examples. A lot of big potential problems and challenges. How are we going to sustain our economic growth? Casino approach is controversial but we did it anyway and overall seems to have achieved the objectives. 40% of our future cohorts are going to be degree holders! Tremendous challenge to create suitable jobs for all of them. All these aside, we are not receptive to foreigners yet we are not producing enough. Looking at the TFR chart really made your heart turn cold. If the trend is not reverse, in 2 to 3 generations we are finished.

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby verykiasu2010 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:21 pm

3Boys wrote:He slams xenophobic and outright anti-foreigner behaviour, especially online and anonymously. He is sad that such comments do not draw more condemnation from other Singaporeans.

"We must be a caring and decent people.....have a bigger heart."


that is highly overdue
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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:26 pm

Didn't I say we must have the heart in the right place? I agree with PM. However, having a bigger heart is not enough, it must be in the RIGHT place. How to achieve that? We first need internal balance, a person forever drowning in unhappiness but claiming to be very happy would find it hard to do that. Everything else that branches from that kind of within would have the flavour of poison in it. So how to detox? Learn to focus the energy on positive things and blessings will overflow. That is the magic of qi...if you exhibit good qi, good things will come to you...not a myth.
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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby Dora1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:53 am

As much as I want to agree with the PM, I think the root cause for the anti-foreigner behaviour needs to be seriously looked into. It is not as simple as just lack of housing and over crowded public transport. These can be easily resolved by building more house/ train lines.
I am not sure what industries are most of the parents here from. In my industry, it is very common for SCs to be sidelined. When I started working 10+ years ago, it was preferential treatment for the expats, which probably make up 10 % of the workforce, and some foreigners on WP in the lowest tiers jobs. SCs make up the middle 80% or so. The expats were given preferential treatment - they work less, but are paid more. However, the SCs were mostly OK with it, cos these are MNCs and the expats are from their HQs. Since we are working in their companies, we "more or less" expected this type of preferential treatment, so not much complains there.
However, in recent years, more and more of the middle management jobs started to go to PRs. And these PRs were given PRs within 3-6months of coming to SG. It started with 1 in the middle management. The SCs were given all the "undesirable tasks" and their own countrymen were given all the cushy portfolios, those that have an opportunity to perform with minimal effort. Very soon, SCs were by passed for promos, and soon many left. Within 1 year, you can easily see the whole dept replaced by all the staff from the same nationality.
The SCs who left and joined other companies faced the same problem with other companies. It was very difficult for SCs to find good jobs. Many of us with years of experience in the field were by-passed as the hiring manager was a PR, and he managed to get candidates from his own country, who flew here on social visit pass for interview, and undercut our pay by $1000. Once they are employed, they were quickly granted PR. Many of my ex colleagues have left the field, which by the way is one of the highly promoted field by the gov, and is highly technical. It is really very sad that all the training and hardwork has come to this.

I am now in a Stat board. Initially I thought the bias would end here. Sad to say, my boss is a new citizen, and >50% of my dept are PR from her country. The story has repeated itself here, although it is a lot less blatant. But its still happening.

This experience seems to be industry specific. My hubby's industry is a lot less serious. So I can understand why some singaporeans don't understand the xenophobic behaviour of some Singaporeans. Even at home, I am a lot more xenophobic compared to my hubby, due to personal experiences and all the injustice suffered. Is it any wonder that certain groups of Singaporeans are anti-foreigner?
I have to qualify that I am on very good terms with my Taiwanese neighbours and we have each other's house keys, and we water plants for each other when we are on holidays. I have some good friends who are PRs. So I don't consider myself xenophobic.
However, the root cause for the outburst on the internet on the anti foreigners are just a way to vent our frustrations, which we can't do in real life. I don't join in the bashing online, but I admit sometimes it does make me feel better just reading those anti-foreigners comments online when I encounter yet another episode of injustice at work.

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby winchester » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:00 am

Dora1 wrote:As much as I want to agree with the PM, I think the root cause for the anti-foreigner behaviour needs to be seriously looked into. It is not as simple as just lack of housing and over crowded public transport. These can be easily resolved by building more house/ train lines.
I am not sure what industries are most of the parents here from. In my industry, it is very common for SCs to be sidelined. When I started working 10+ years ago, it was preferential treatment for the expats, which probably make up 10 % of the workforce, and some foreigners on WP in the lowest tiers jobs. SCs make up the middle 80% or so. The expats were given preferential treatment - they work less, but are paid more. However, the SCs were mostly OK with it, cos these are MNCs and the expats are from their HQs. Since we are working in their companies, we "more or less" expected this type of preferential treatment, so not much complains there.
However, in recent years, more and more of the middle management jobs started to go to PRs. And these PRs were given PRs within 3-6months of coming to SG. It started with 1 in the middle management. The SCs were given all the "undesirable tasks" and their own countrymen were given all the cushy portfolios, those that have an opportunity to perform with minimal effort. Very soon, SCs were by passed for promos, and soon many left. Within 1 year, you can easily see the whole dept replaced by all the staff from the same nationality.
The SCs who left and joined other companies faced the same problem with other companies. It was very difficult for SCs to find good jobs. Many of us with years of experience in the field were by-passed as the hiring manager was a PR, and he managed to get candidates from his own country, who flew here on social visit pass for interview, and undercut our pay by $1000. Once they are employed, they were quickly granted PR. Many of my ex colleagues have left the field, which by the way is one of the highly promoted field by the gov, and is highly technical. It is really very sad that all the training and hardwork has come to this.



you in IT or banking? yah, the problem is the mid-management also come in to compete with resources with us - housing, transport, jobs, opportunities. worse as they dont come as expats and are cheap, looking for the same things as us and also they are protected by their own kind in office.

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby verykiasu2010 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:05 am

winchester wrote:
Dora1 wrote:As much as I want to agree with the PM, I think the root cause for the anti-foreigner behaviour needs to be seriously looked into. It is not as simple as just lack of housing and over crowded public transport. These can be easily resolved by building more house/ train lines.
I am not sure what industries are most of the parents here from. In my industry, it is very common for SCs to be sidelined. When I started working 10+ years ago, it was preferential treatment for the expats, which probably make up 10 % of the workforce, and some foreigners on WP in the lowest tiers jobs. SCs make up the middle 80% or so. The expats were given preferential treatment - they work less, but are paid more. However, the SCs were mostly OK with it, cos these are MNCs and the expats are from their HQs. Since we are working in their companies, we "more or less" expected this type of preferential treatment, so not much complains there.
However, in recent years, more and more of the middle management jobs started to go to PRs. And these PRs were given PRs within 3-6months of coming to SG. It started with 1 in the middle management. The SCs were given all the "undesirable tasks" and their own countrymen were given all the cushy portfolios, those that have an opportunity to perform with minimal effort. Very soon, SCs were by passed for promos, and soon many left. Within 1 year, you can easily see the whole dept replaced by all the staff from the same nationality.
The SCs who left and joined other companies faced the same problem with other companies. It was very difficult for SCs to find good jobs. Many of us with years of experience in the field were by-passed as the hiring manager was a PR, and he managed to get candidates from his own country, who flew here on social visit pass for interview, and undercut our pay by $1000. Once they are employed, they were quickly granted PR. Many of my ex colleagues have left the field, which by the way is one of the highly promoted field by the gov, and is highly technical. It is really very sad that all the training and hardwork has come to this.



you in IT or banking? yah, the problem is the mid-management also come in to compete with resources with us - housing, transport, jobs, opportunities. worse as they dont come as expats and are cheap, looking for the same things as us and also they are protected by their own kind in office.


I would say the ROOT CAUSE is the thrust and misguided belief & trust that only foreign bankers are gooder and the blind trust given to foreign CEO heading the local banks.

Salute Wee Cho Yaw and Lien Ying Chou
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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby 3Boys » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:08 am

An issue (that PM also highlighted, although using different words) is Singaporeans' penchant for externalising blame. Its unfortunately part of the learned helplessness that pervades the middle-aged, middle-classed Singaporean of today.

The root cause of anti-foreigner sentiment is.........anti-foreigner sentiment. If one were not xenophobic to begin with, one could not easily be turned xenophobic by external circumstances.

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby winchester » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:12 am

verykiasu2010 wrote:
I would say the ROOT CAUSE is the thrust and misguided belief & trust that only foreign bankers are gooder and the blind trust given to foreign CEO heading the local banks.

Salute Wee Cho Yaw and Lien Ying Chou


yah. i hate this thinking. and those in the industry, know about the rumours of them foreigners clicking together, covering each other. laughing at us as they climb over our heads.

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Re: PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

Postby winchester » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:14 am

3Boys wrote:An issue (that PM also highlighted, although using different words) is Singaporeans' penchant for externalising blame. Its unfortunately part of the learned helplessness that pervades the middle-aged, middle-classed Singaporean of today.

The root cause of anti-foreigner sentiment is.........anti-foreigner sentiment. If one were not xenophobic to begin with, one could not easily be turned xenophobic by external circumstances.


some of the anti-foreigner sentiment is pure trash bullshit. like that ferrari accident. that is irrational and stupid criticism and outright xenophobia by some locals.

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