What is hydrocarbon?

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What is hydrocarbon?

Postby kamom » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:54 pm

I saw a BOSCH fridge. It makes use of HC (hydrocarbon) which is more environmental friendly but understand it is highly flammable.

Any comments on this?

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby verykiasu2010 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:43 am

Flammability And Safety Standards For Hydrocarbons
Hydrocarbons are flammable. However, their flammability can be easily mitigated through adequate safety measures in production and product design. The content of propane or butane in a domestic 'Greenfreeze' refrigerator equals roughly the content of two cigarette lighters. The risk of explosion is minimal: it takes between 17 g/cubic meter and 39 g/cubic meter to create an explosive mixture. Therefore, if the refrigerant were to leak outside the refrigerator, an explosion would be nearly impossible. In the unlikely event of a sudden and complete leakage into the cabinet, explosion of the mixture would also be highly improbable as ignition sources such as the light switches and evaporators have been moved into the foam insulation. In addition, the lubricating oil in the system absorbs up to 50% of the hydrocarbon refrigerant.

The Technischer Ueberwachungsverein (TUEV), the German safety and standards institution, has approved the 'Greenfreeze' Models as "safe and tested" and states that as a result of their investigations "there are no dangers in the use, transport and storage of this refrigerator due to the use of the liquid gas as a cooling agent" and that "appearance and explosion of propane butane inside the refrigerator can be practically excluded". Its safety-sign is valid for the entire European Community market. Upcoming European legislation will allow up to one kilogram of inflammable refrigerant without restriction.

Underwriters Laboratory in the US has also approved cyclopentane for insulation foam blowing, as well as the use of up to 113 g of hydrocarbons for refrigerant.

http://archive.greenpeace.org/ozone/greenfreeze/
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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby limlim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:58 am

I assume the HC refers to the refrigerant..

Previously, refrigerants are made from CFC, which contains Carbon, Fluorine and Chlorine. The chlorine is said to be responsible for the hole in the ozone layer.

If HC, means it contains Hydrogen and Carbon only. Other then it is a fuel.. there is nothing particularly harmful or special about it.

I believe, the risk is minimum in using the HC even thou it is flammable. In the event of a leak, the amount release is probably small and much dissipated or diluted under normal circumstances. The risk gets higher if the environment is enclosed allowing the concentration to build up to potentially dangerous levels.. but that is IF there is a leak.

But if what vk posted is true, the amount is so very small.. unlikely to cause any signification explosion..

I would expect NG or LPG to be much more highly flammable and explosive.. but almost everyone uses it in cooking in their house every day..

so.. I guess a bit of HC in a fridge isn't going to be much of a big deal.

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby kamom » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:23 am

THANKS A HEAP!

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby Way2GO » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:26 pm

d article vk2010 posted is by Greenpeace
who has pushing for d replacement of HFCs by Greenfreeze for more than 2 decades, so I think there is vested interest in Greenpeace's article.

d HC u mentioined is likely isobutane - commonly known as refrigerant R 600a.
It is odorless, unless d manufacturer adds an ethyl derivative to it for smell.
There has to be a good reason for the US EPA n Canada to not allow its use until recently.
It is an inflammable gas n carries an explosion risk if safety precautions r not strictly followed for instance, by careless service technicians or end-users though safeguards r built-in during manufacture.
It is safe to use but be aware of its explosive potential.

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby Way2GO » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:30 pm

limlim wrote:I would expect NG or LPG to be much more highly flammable and explosive.. but almost everyone uses it in cooking in their house every day..

so.. I guess a bit of HC in a fridge isn't going to be much of a big deal.


Apa ini!!!!
LPG is propane gas, yes?
Isobutane is a mixture of butane n propane - it is just as explosive!

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby Way2GO » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:46 pm

limlim wrote:
But if what vk posted is true, the amount is so very small.. unlikely to cause any signification explosion..


20g of leaked isobutane can vaporized into ~1/2 cu metre of explosive gas in an instant.
Imagine u spark an ignition at dat moment
ur green chameleon will turned into charmeleon! :rotflmao:

limlim wrote:
I believe, the risk is minimum in using the HC even thou it is flammable. In the event of a leak, the amount release is probably small and much dissipated or diluted under normal circumstances. The risk gets higher if the environment is enclosed allowing the concentration to build up to potentially dangerous levels.. but that is IF there is a leak.


dis I concur dat d risk is minimized under normal household conditions when any small leak is quickly diffused.

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby limlim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Way2GO wrote:
limlim wrote:
But if what vk posted is true, the amount is so very small.. unlikely to cause any signification explosion..


20g of leaked isobutane can vaporized into ~1/2 cu metre of explosive gas in an instant.
Imagine u spark an ignition at dat moment
ur green chameleon will turned into charmeleon! :rotflmao:


mini Explosion, yes, maybe.. The amount of energy released will not cause much destruction.

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby limlim » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:58 pm

Way2GO wrote:
limlim wrote:I would expect NG or LPG to be much more highly flammable and explosive.. but almost everyone uses it in cooking in their house every day..

so.. I guess a bit of HC in a fridge isn't going to be much of a big deal.


Apa ini!!!!
LPG is propane gas, yes?
Isobutane is a mixture of butane n propane - it is just as explosive!


LPG or LNG or NG (natural gas) is a mixture of light HC, such as methane, ethane, propane and butane, which are all gases at RT. Most of it should be methane.

isobutane is 2-methylpropane. It has exactly the same HC composition/ratio as butane, but structurally different. It is not a mixture of propane and butane.

Since they are all gases, it would be relative easy for all of those mentioned to catch fire.

However, isobutane being heavier and non-linear in structure, would not burn as fast as methane, strictly speaking. Well, maybe LPG is not that "much more" flammable.. consider that I over exaggerated....

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Re: What is hydrocarbon?

Postby verykiasu2010 » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:16 pm

limlim wrote:
Way2GO wrote:
limlim wrote:I would expect NG or LPG to be much more highly flammable and explosive.. but almost everyone uses it in cooking in their house every day..

so.. I guess a bit of HC in a fridge isn't going to be much of a big deal.


Apa ini!!!!
LPG is propane gas, yes?
Isobutane is a mixture of butane n propane - it is just as explosive!


LPG or LNG or NG (natural gas) is a mixture of light HC, such as methane, ethane, propane, cocaine and butane, which are all gases at RT. Most of it should be methane.

isobutane is 2-methylpropane. It has exactly the same HC composition/ratio as butane, but structurally different. It is not a mixture of propane and butane.

Since they are all gases, it would be relative easy for all of those mentioned to catch fire.

However, isobutane being heavier and non-linear in structure, would not burn as fast as methane, strictly speaking. Well, maybe LPG is not that "much more" flammable.. consider that I over exaggerated....
:rotflmao: :evil:
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