MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

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pirate
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by pirate » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:51 pm

edtan wrote:Because there is an entry requirement into the university, we have "A" level. It is because of "A" level, we need to make sure our kids do well in their exam and get to a decent course of choice. Because of all these, we need to have a competitive environment to put them into test.

An iron sharpens another iron. I can't imagine a wood sharpens an iron but I don't mind a diamond sharpens an iron.
I do not agree that the "A" levels is necessarily a good gauge of university applicants' capability and potential. A competitive environment is not necessarily a bad thing. But what is the competition about? Cramming ability or the ability of children's family to pay for "enrichment" tuition?

We can talk about iron sharpening another iron etc. But if we concentrate too much on tempering iron, we may forget how to steel and titanium etc, which are superior to iron in terms of strength.

tutormum
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by tutormum » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:53 pm

pinky wrote:
tutormum wrote:
pinky wrote:I support the scrapping too. Heard from friends of schools asking their students to drop subjects that they did not do well in case it affect the school overall ranking. (I suppose referring to S4 students). Wonder if it is a common practice :yikes:
No need to wonder. It is so common that every school is doing it. Thank God that DS3 is able to take Literature as O level as he loves it. His school has not offered it for seven years. I know the main reason that students are not encouraged to take Literature cos of the low chance of scoring A. Schools don't want it to pull down the overall ranking while students don't want to get anything less than A. :sad:
so how was your son able to take it now? he must be very happy
He has had prayed fervently for it cos he knew that the chance was very slim. :nailbite: :nailbite: Imagine 20+ out of a cohort of more than 350 students taking Literature. :slapshead: :slapshead:
He's enjoying it very much and one of the reasons is that the class is half of the usual number and there's so much more the teacher can do than with a normal class. Class size does play an important role. :rant: He has learnt so much (much more than what I did for my O levels) that it's one of his favourite subjects and confident that he'll get A with his eyes closed.
Interest in a subject does play a very important role. No point forcing your children to take up triple sciences, for example, just cos everybody is doing it and hope that he'll be a doctor when he loves arts, right? I rather go against the norm and have happy children then spend tons of money in trying to make them big lawyers and doctors unless it's their wish in the first place. :roll: When schools and parents are churning out A students, they overuse the cutters and yet wonder why all students are of one size and shape. :mad: :mad:
Last edited by tutormum on Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by Guest » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:57 pm

firefly38 wrote:
tutormum wrote:
pinky wrote:I support the scrapping too. Heard from friends of schools asking their students to drop subjects that they did not do well in case it affect the school overall ranking. (I suppose referring to S4 students). Wonder if it is a common practice :yikes:
No need to wonder. It is so common that every school is doing it. Thank God that DS3 is able to take Literature as O level as he loves it. His school has not offered it for seven years. I know the main reason that students are not encouraged to take Literature cos of the low chance of scoring A. Schools don't want it to pull down the overall ranking while students don't want to get anything less than A. :sad:
Catholic High School (Sec) is an exception.. The students are allowed to take any subject combinations (in addition to choosing from fixed subject bundles), as the Principal believes that students are more likely to do well in subjects they have interest in, not in subjects they are being forced to take.. The school will make special arrangement even if there is only 1 student taking a particular subject combination.. Certainly more work for the school time-tabling team, but they feel that the extra effort is worth it.. :smile:

I believe, besides CHS, there are many other schools which have been placing students' welfare as their first priority.. I do not agree when you say ''EVERY school is doing it''.. I do not think Pinky meant it that way either.. :roll:
Kudos to CHS for not succumbing to school ranking competition pressure..

iFirefly
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by iFirefly » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:32 am

tutormum wrote: He has had prayed fervently for it cos he knew that the chance was very slim. :nailbite: :nailbite: Imagine 20+ out of a cohort of more than 350 students taking Literature. :slapshead: :slapshead:
He's enjoying it very much and one of the reasons is that the class is half of the usual number and there's so much more the teacher can do than with a normal class. Class size does play an important role. :rant: He has learnt so much (much more than what I did for my O levels) that it's one of his favourite subjects and confident that he'll get A with his eyes closed.
Interest in a subject does play a very important role. No point forcing your children to take up triple sciences, for example, just cos everybody is doing it and hope that he'll be a doctor when he loves arts, right? I rather go against the norm and have happy children then spend tons of money in trying to make them big lawyers and doctors unless it's their wish in the first place. :roll: When schools and parents are churning out A students, they overuse the cutters and yet wonder why all students are of one size and shape. :mad: :mad:
Agree.. Happy kids doing subjects they have strong interest in, will almost certainly lead to good results.. no need tuition at all.. :smile:

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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by jtoh » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:21 am

firefly38 wrote:
tutormum wrote:
pinky wrote:I support the scrapping too. Heard from friends of schools asking their students to drop subjects that they did not do well in case it affect the school overall ranking. (I suppose referring to S4 students). Wonder if it is a common practice :yikes:
No need to wonder. It is so common that every school is doing it. Thank God that DS3 is able to take Literature as O level as he loves it. His school has not offered it for seven years. I know the main reason that students are not encouraged to take Literature cos of the low chance of scoring A. Schools don't want it to pull down the overall ranking while students don't want to get anything less than A. :sad:
Catholic High School (Sec) is an exception.. The students are allowed to take any subject combinations (in addition to choosing from fixed subject bundles), as the Principal believes that students are more likely to do well in subjects they have interest in, not in subjects they are being forced to take.. The school will make special arrangement even if there is only 1 student taking a particular subject combination.. Certainly more work for the school time-tabling team, but they feel that the extra effort is worth it.. :smile:

I believe, besides CHS, there are many other schools which have been placing students' welfare as their first priority.. I do not agree when you say ''EVERY school is doing it''.. I do not think Pinky meant it that way either.. :roll:
It's true. There are other schools, aside from CHS, which will do their best to give students the subject combination they want, even if it's just one person doing that combination. And kudos to the schools that do it because administratively it's a lot more work.


slmkhoo
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by slmkhoo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:18 am

edtan wrote:I think the MOE is too reactive over by one or two people comments.
First, it was the P1 screening and later Secondary school banding.

Why don't take out the entry requirement for the universities, that will solve every parent woe and have unlimited vacancies for all courses. We can choose we want to do; not constraints by the entry points.

Because there is an entry requirement into the university, we have "A" level. It is because of "A" level, we need to make sure our kids do well in their exam and get to a decent course of choice. Because of all these, we need to have a competitive environment to put them into test.

An iron sharpens another iron. I can't imagine a wood sharpens an iron but I don't mind a diamond sharpens an iron.
I don't quite see your argument. Removing official banding does not remove competitive entry into schools or universities. It may mean that the quality of exam results is not so clearly published, but if the banding results in schools behaving in undesirable ways (making students drop subjects, not offering certain subjects etc), then I'm all for the removal. Schools can still publish their results and private individuals can compile them if they wish, but at least that will not be seen to be as important as when MOE does the banding.

nms1
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by nms1 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:47 am

verykiasu2010 wrote:no time to catch up reading from page 1

here is my view. when MOE stops the banding, there will be enterprising people who will start to compile the data and do their own research and ranking and analysis, and parents will buy those info in a book, or subscribe to a website

I know there were people who wanted to do just that - research, compile & analyse data, interview the school, and rank them, and sell the info

Probably ksp website could one day evolve into that database, subscription based

Not giving any idea to CKS to start charging. It is just an example

The bottom line is, MOE does not do it, others will do it. Last time it was done by SPH/ST
Which just goes to prove that the parents are part of the problem! However much MOE tries to change unless parents change their expectations, the problems will still remain.

Parents need to accept that not all children can be top students, not all children will benefit from being in a "top" school and really find out where their child's strengths lie and what the best options are for them.

verykiasu2010
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by verykiasu2010 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:55 am

nms1 wrote:
verykiasu2010 wrote:no time to catch up reading from page 1

here is my view. when MOE stops the banding, there will be enterprising people who will start to compile the data and do their own research and ranking and analysis, and parents will buy those info in a book, or subscribe to a website

I know there were people who wanted to do just that - research, compile & analyse data, interview the school, and rank them, and sell the info

Probably ksp website could one day evolve into that database, subscription based

Not giving any idea to CKS to start charging. It is just an example

The bottom line is, MOE does not do it, others will do it. Last time it was done by SPH/ST
Which just goes to prove that the parents are part of the problem! However much MOE tries to change unless parents change their expectations, the problems will still remain.

Parents need to accept that not all children can be top students, not all children will benefit from being in a "top" school and really find out where their child's strengths lie and what the best options are for them.
:goodpost: :goodpost:


3Boys
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Re: MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools

Post by 3Boys » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:25 am

edtan wrote:I think the MOE is too reactive over by one or two people comments.
First, it was the P1 screening and later Secondary school banding.

Why don't take out the entry requirement for the universities, that will solve every parent woe and have unlimited vacancies for all courses. We can choose we want to do; not constraints by the entry points.
So you are suggesting that even those who are not academically inclined be allowed to do say, medicine, if he so chooses? Even if his chances of flunking out were very high?

Or are you saying that we do away with standards altogether in Uni so that even someone who were flunking every semester be allowed to graduate?

How much trust will you have in your professions if that were the case?

We should not expand Uni places for the sake of expanding Uni places. Or for that matter, just so that can feel good about not having to compete for expensive state-funded education.

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