The PM now admits.........

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The PM now admits.........

Postby Rational_Parent » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:23 pm

SINGAPORE: Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has admitted the government did not have 20/20 foresight, resulting in problems with inadequate infrastructure in the country.

He was speaking at the "Singapore Perspectives" conference on governance organised by the Institute of Policy Studies on Monday.

Acknowledging the problems of insufficient housing and inefficient transportation network, Mr Lee pointed out that the government was blind-sided by the outcome of some international events.

He elaborated that in 2000 and 2001, the 9/11 terrorism attack on the United States plunged countries into recession. Singapore was dealt with a slow economy with minimum population growth and local housing prices went down.

But by 2005 and 2006, Mr Lee said the mood changed and the economy started picking up.

So, he said, the government did what it thought would have been appropriate then. It decided to make up for lost time by growing the population and boosting the economy.

He acknowledged that infrastructure like housing and transport didn't keep up with that growth.

Mr Lee said: "I decided that we should try and make up for lost time because you want the economy to grow. You want Singapore to make progress and you don't know how long the sun is going to shine. As it turned out, the sun remained shining for longer than we expected. So the population grew faster than we expected, our infrastructure didn't keep up.

"The strains showed up...They didn't show up gradually, progressively but quite suddenly. When the global financial crisis came at the end of the decade, 2007/2008, we expected to go for a very deep dive.

"In fact in one quarter, we had minus 10 percent growth. Nobody talked about house prices, there was no shortage. HDB - we watched the market every day, the resale market was dead but we did the right thing with our Jobs Credit and other measures. We avoided a bullet, the world economy recovered faster than expected.

"In the middle of 2009, the wind changed...those of you in business, you would remember that in the course of two weeks, during one or two private property launches, somehow the wind changed. It's like the spring breeze touched your face and the market was off. By August, we were thinking of measures to cool things down and we've been trying to cool things down ever since.

"So we lacked that 20/20 foresight. Next time, we will try to do better, certainly to have a bigger buffer and not to cut things so fine. But I think it's very difficult to know, 10 years from now, how many you will need.

"Even if you know how many persons there will be in Singapore, you can't say how many houses they will need. Will they buy it? Or will they say, 'oh, I'm not certain because the economy is not looking good or the politics are not certain, well, I'll hold off'? But when the market goes up, it goes up with a vengeance and we've paid the political price, we learn from it."

In the 90-minute question and answer session, Prime Minister Lee also tackled a number of issues which included whether the wide-ranging social nets in Singapore would encourage citizens to become more dependent and if Singapore needs more space for discussion.

Mr Lee is of the view that the government needs to do more but he wants the government to be helping from behind the scenes, as opposed to Singaporeans expecting the government to jump in all the time.

On why there is still a need to moderate social space involving social media, for example, Mr Lee said the online community in particular is not moderating itself.

Extreme views are put out and responses and disapprovals are also extreme. So this cannot be left to itself.

Mr Lee said: "We don't believe the community in the social space, especially online, moderates itself. It doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

"You have views going to extremes and when people respond to their views, they may respond in an extreme way, and when people decide to disapprove of something which was inappropriate, the disapproval can also happen in an extreme way.

"It's in the nature of the medium, the way the interactions work and that's the reason why we think it cannot be completely left by itself."

- CNA/ir

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby ChiefKiasu » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:31 pm

Rational_Parent wrote:...
On why there is still a need to moderate social space involving social media, for example, Mr Lee said the online community in particular is not moderating itself.

Extreme views are put out and responses and disapprovals are also extreme. So this cannot be left to itself.

Mr Lee said: "We don't believe the community in the social space, especially online, moderates itself. It doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

"You have views going to extremes and when people respond to their views, they may respond in an extreme way, and when people decide to disapprove of something which was inappropriate, the disapproval can also happen in an extreme way.

"It's in the nature of the medium, the way the interactions work and that's the reason why we think it cannot be completely left by itself."

- CNA/ir


This sounds ominous. Sounds like they are planning to turn on more screws on social media. Licensing on the cards? I wonder.

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby 3Boys » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:38 pm

ChiefKiasu wrote:
Rational_Parent wrote:...
On why there is still a need to moderate social space involving social media, for example, Mr Lee said the online community in particular is not moderating itself.

Extreme views are put out and responses and disapprovals are also extreme. So this cannot be left to itself.

Mr Lee said: "We don't believe the community in the social space, especially online, moderates itself. It doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

"You have views going to extremes and when people respond to their views, they may respond in an extreme way, and when people decide to disapprove of something which was inappropriate, the disapproval can also happen in an extreme way.

"It's in the nature of the medium, the way the interactions work and that's the reason why we think it cannot be completely left by itself."

- CNA/ir


This sounds ominous. Sounds like they are planning to turn on more screws on social media. Licensing on the cards? I wonder.


I doubt so. If they were to be so foolish, they are going to hurt even more in the near future.

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby Rational_Parent » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:43 pm

ChiefKiasu wrote:This sounds ominous. Sounds like they are planning to turn on more screws on social media. Licensing on the cards? I wonder.
Well, one thing is certain - many, including politicians have been reading posts from this forum! Can't kill a source where valuable feedback can be derived. And licencing will stifle inputs. My reckoning, KSP is safe; and so is your job, chief. :evil:

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby 3Boys » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:11 pm

Rational_Parent wrote:
ChiefKiasu wrote:This sounds ominous. Sounds like they are planning to turn on more screws on social media. Licensing on the cards? I wonder.
Well, one thing is certain - many, including politicians have been reading posts from this forum! Can't kill a source where valuable feedback can be derived. And licencing will stifle inputs. My reckoning, KSP is safe; and so is your job, chief. :evil:


I agree. Tough though the talk here is, it ain't no HWZ!

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby pirate » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:21 pm

Hee hee. We scold them only when they deserving a :spank: shellacking. And sometimes we :torchme: each other too. But after that, it's all :grphug:

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby HVR » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 pm

Nobody can have 20/20 foresight. Who would expect 2003 Sars outbreak? Our country was almost crippled by it and I deeply appreciate how the government tackled the crisis. No resources spared and no chances taken and I don't remember any suggestions or feedback or anything from opposition parties.

With regard to social media, it's a joke sometimes. Bloggers are not too bad, they say what they said and are ultimately responsible for it. Forums, on the other hand, provided an opportunity for people to be irresponsible. I am not saying all forum-ers are irresponsible but I noticed in some other forums, it's practically only anti-establishment views are allowed. If you expressed support for PAP, you will be called names, ridiculed, cursed and so on. Where is the maturity? How to debate in such serious topic as politic if people are not mature?

If you seriously analyze the views shared by some of these forum-ers, you would realize they actually have little views. They are only interested in inciting emotion and generate hatres. Sometime I wonder PAP, why, as a political party, chose to leave all these views unchallenged. I am sure they can get their activists to post objective views and their side of the story in these forums as well. If you want to be heard and defense yourself against all these allegations in the Internet forums, you have to be in the forums. They don't have to respond as government, just someone with different views and someone who want the different views to be heard.

In KSP, can you imagine if we don't have 3boys? It will be one sided as well. Luckily unlike other forums, majority here still debate rationally. I am not saying 3boys is a PAP supporter, he said more than once he had voted for opposition. My point is, generally, Internet forums only contain views that are in support of opposition. It's too one sided and its not healthy in term of objectivity.

PM said social media did not 'moderate' itself and cannot be left to itself. I don't know which way this will go but I agree with PM that the views expressed by the online community are too extremes and I think this is extremely unhealthy.

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby kwcllf » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:30 pm

Rational_Parent wrote:SINGAPORE:
He acknowledged that infrastructure like housing and transport didn't keep up with that growth.

Mr Lee said: "I decided that we should try and make up for lost time because you want the economy to grow. You want Singapore to make progress and you don't know how long the sun is going to shine. As it turned out, the sun remained shining for longer than we expected. So the population grew faster than we expected, our infrastructure didn't keep up.

"The strains showed up...They didn't show up gradually, progressively but quite suddenly.

- CNA/ir

This part I do not understand. If Singaporeans are not producing enough babies, then the increase in population must come from immigration. If there is an explosive growth in population, does it not mean that the govt did not manage it properly, which causes the strain in infrastructure?

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby Harlequin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:32 pm

HVR wrote:Nobody can have 20/20 foresight. Who would expect 2003 Sars outbreak? Our country was almost crippled by it and I deeply appreciate how the government tackled the crisis. No resources spared and no chances taken and I don't remember any suggestions or feedback or anything from opposition parties.

With regard to social media, it's a joke sometimes. Bloggers are not too bad, they say what they said and are ultimately responsible for it. Forums, on the other hand, provided an opportunity for people to be irresponsible. I am not saying all forum-ers are irresponsible but I noticed in some other forums, it's practically only anti-establishment views are allowed. If you expressed support for PAP, you will be called names, ridiculed, cursed and so on. Where is the maturity? How to debate in such serious topic as politic if people are not mature?

If you seriously analyze the views shared by some of these forum-ers, you would realize they actually have little views. They are only interested in inciting emotion and generate hatres. Sometime I wonder PAP, why, as a political party, chose to leave all these views unchallenged. I am sure they can get their activists to post objective views and their side of the story in these forums as well. If you want to be heard and defense yourself against all these allegations in the Internet forums, you have to be in the forums. They don't have to respond as government, just someone with different views and someone who want the different views to be heard.

In KSP, can you imagine if we don't have 3boys? It will be one sided as well. Luckily unlike other forums, majority here still debate rationally. I am not saying 3boys is a PAP supporter, he said more than once he had voted for opposition. My point is, generally, Internet forums only contain views that are in support of opposition. It's too one sided and its not healthy in term of objectivity.

PM said social media did not 'moderate' itself and cannot be left to itself. I don't know which way this will go but I agree with PM that the views expressed by the online community are too extremes and I think this is extremely unhealthy.


:goodpost:
:goodpost:
:goodpost:

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Re: The PM now admits.........

Postby ngl2010 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:35 pm

kwcllf wrote:
Rational_Parent wrote:SINGAPORE:
He acknowledged that infrastructure like housing and transport didn't keep up with that growth.

Mr Lee said: "I decided that we should try and make up for lost time because you want the economy to grow. You want Singapore to make progress and you don't know how long the sun is going to shine. As it turned out, the sun remained shining for longer than we expected. So the population grew faster than we expected, our infrastructure didn't keep up.

"The strains showed up...They didn't show up gradually, progressively but quite suddenly.

- CNA/ir

This part I do not understand. If Singaporeans are not producing enough babies, then the increase in population must come from immigration. If there is an explosive growth in population, does it not mean that the govt did not manage it properly, which causes the strain in infrastructure?

I wonder about it too :scratchhead:

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