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Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby Lock » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:18 pm

I have 2 kids and have experienced 3 different 'type' of schools. DD who just completed her PSLE this year was from a mission girls' sch with PSLE results that are nothing to scream about. Top students usually scored around 15 marks lower than the national top scorers. And the number of students with >250 usually ranged between 15-20. Hence, in terms of academic achievement, I would consider DD's school not a good school. The students in top classes were not stretched and not much work was given even during the mths/wks leading to PSLE. In fact, I don't credit DD's excellent PSLE result (she is among the top 3%) to any of her teachers. It was I who coached her on all subjects, other than CL. Btw, DD has no tuitions in all subjects, except for CL.

But DD's school is a good school for her cos DD has blossomed into a confident young lady with strong leadership qualities. It is possible that the various character development progs and leadership opportunities the school has helped to nurture her in these areas. Where the sch had failed to develop her academics potential, it had developed her confidence and leadership qualities. So, on the whole I would say that DD's sch is a good sch. The lack in academic excellence can be supplemented by me.

DS was in a top neighbourhood school from P1-P3. Just a few years back the national top scorer was from this school. Consistently, the sch has 50-60 students scoring >250. So, most would agree with me that this is a good school. I knew I would not have to worry for his PSLE as long as DS remained in the top 2 classes in this school. The school has very strict discipline as well, so the kids are generally very well-behaved. I like the school and would say this is a good school. But it's not a good school for my DS. The amount of work upset DS (frankly I find the workload insane as well but that's the way to ensure good PSLE results right!). Because of the strict discipline, kids were often scolded for playing too loudly during recess and there's a no ball games rule as well. All these did not go well with my active DS. While he continued to excel academically, he was not enjoying sch life as much as my DD.

Then, in P4 this year, he was transferred to one of the sought-after top schs. His classmates and teachers were great and he was challenged academically. He enjoyed himself more in this new school. It is a good school for him but not for me. Personally, I find the school discipline too lax. Bullying is quite common in this school and DS was picked on a couple of times. Parents can be snobbish and inconsiderate (judging from the way they drop off and pick up their kids in the school compound.)

So, what's my point? A good school is not one with excellent PSLE scores, nor one with excellent programmes but one that our kids can fit in and enjoy going to everyday. In that sense, all schools can be considered good schools as different kids have different needs and we have different types of school to cater to these needs. A parent's view of what's a good school can be quite different from a kid's view.

Lock
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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby Nebbermind » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:35 pm

slmkhoo wrote:
seaglass wrote:
Nebbermind wrote:Ah...you are not hearing me. I'm not comparing the schools...but rather, the kids in, say, the top class of the better school are separated by 25 pts even when they get the same resources from moe.


so it's more to do with the kids then with the school? :sweat:

Yes. If not, how do you explain how kids from the same family and the same school can differ greatly in performance? I have 2 girls, same upbringing and same school, but one is doing very well and the other is struggling. And the one who is struggling gets much more help at home than the other.


it should be the same in the schools, ie, the weakest classes should get more help.
But all schools have a budget to work within and so if one has more % of weaker students, each kid will get lesser help. That is a fact of life.
So that's where clan, alumni and affiliation would be able to provide the additional resources. Imagine if 5~10% of each cohort is to come back and help the school, bringing with them talents and skill sets which may be not readily available or would cost the school plenty...all these will go into lifting the schools. But if you leave it to the authority then it's not gonna change much coz we all like meritocracy and fairness..everyone equal share :wink:

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby wonderm » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:46 pm

Lock wrote:I have 2 kids and have experienced 3 different 'type' of schools. DD who just completed her PSLE this year was from a mission girls' sch with PSLE results that are nothing to scream about. Top students usually scored around 15 marks lower than the national top scorers. And the number of students with >250 usually ranged between 15-20. Hence, in terms of academic achievement, I would consider DD's school not a good school. The students in top classes were not stretched and not much work was given even during the mths/wks leading to PSLE. In fact, I don't credit DD's excellent PSLE result (she is among the top 3%) to any of her teachers. It was I who coached her on all subjects, other than CL. Btw, DD has no tuitions in all subjects, except for CL.

But DD's school is a good school for her cos DD has blossomed into a confident young lady with strong leadership qualities. It is possible that the various character development progs and leadership opportunities the school has helped to nurture her in these areas. Where the sch had failed to develop her academics potential, it had developed her confidence and leadership qualities. So, on the whole I would say that DD's sch is a good sch. The lack in academic excellence can be supplemented by me.

DS was in a top neighbourhood school from P1-P3. Just a few years back the national top scorer was from this school. Consistently, the sch has 50-60 students scoring >250. So, most would agree with me that this is a good school. I knew I would not have to worry for his PSLE as long as DS remained in the top 2 classes in this school. The school has very strict discipline as well, so the kids are generally very well-behaved. I like the school and would say this is a good school. But it's not a good school for my DS. The amount of work upset DS (frankly I find the workload insane as well but that's the way to ensure good PSLE results right!). Because of the strict discipline, kids were often scolded for playing too loudly during recess and there's a no ball games rule as well. All these did not go well with my active DS. While he continued to excel academically, he was not enjoying sch life as much as my DD.

Then, in P4 this year, he was transferred to one of the sought-after top schs. His classmates and teachers were great and he was challenged academically. He enjoyed himself more in this new school. It is a good school for him but not for me. Personally, I find the school discipline too lax. Bullying is quite common in this school and DS was picked on a couple of times. Parents can be snobbish and inconsiderate (judging from the way they drop off and pick up their kids in the school compound.)

So, what's my point? A good school is not one with excellent PSLE scores, nor one with excellent programmes but one that our kids can fit in and enjoy going to everyday. In that sense, all schools can be considered good schools as different kids have different needs and we have different types of school to cater to these needs. A parent's view of what's a good school can be quite different from a kid's view.


:goodpost:

wonderm
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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby Nebbermind » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:13 pm

Then again, those of us whose kids are generally ok academically and can afford more time for holistic development will probably have a different testimony from those whose kids are in the same school but are lagging behind their peers. :shrug:...or, what kinda tune will we be singing if our kids had turned out otherwise?

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby zbear » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:31 am

Lock wrote:Then, in P4 this year, he was transferred to one of the sought-after top schs. His classmates and teachers were great and he was challenged academically. He enjoyed himself more in this new school. It is a good school for him but not for me. Personally, I find the school discipline too lax. Bullying is quite common in this school and DS was picked on a couple of times. Parents can be snobbish and inconsiderate (judging from the way they drop off and pick up their kids in the school compound.)



Yr son qualified for GEP n went into a GEPper school?

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby Lock » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:40 am

zbear wrote:
Lock wrote:Then, in P4 this year, he was transferred to one of the sought-after top schs. His classmates and teachers were great and he was challenged academically. He enjoyed himself more in this new school. It is a good school for him but not for me. Personally, I find the school discipline too lax. Bullying is quite common in this school and DS was picked on a couple of times. Parents can be snobbish and inconsiderate (judging from the way they drop off and pick up their kids in the school compound.)



Yr son qualified for GEP n went into a GEPper school?

Yes. :smile:

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby Laura02 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:55 am

Nebbermind wrote:
So that's where clan, alumni and affiliation would be able to provide the additional resources.


Eh, don't forget another important "resource" that schools can draw on - the parents! Imagine if 50% of parents can contribute their time and know how ... and I don't mean money. After all, it takes a village to raise a child ... and everyone has a worthy skill that they can pass on and teach our next generation.

So please, every parent out there, please go offer your services to your child's/ children's school.

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby limlim » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:20 pm

Laura02 wrote:
Nebbermind wrote:
So that's where clan, alumni and affiliation would be able to provide the additional resources.


Eh, don't forget another important "resource" that schools can draw on - the parents! Imagine if 50% of parents can contribute their time and know how ... and I don't mean money. After all, it takes a village to raise a child ... and everyone has a worthy skill that they can pass on and teach our next generation.

So please, every parent out there, please go offer your services to your child's/ children's school.


Even if the parent is willing, the school may not be keen.

Most activities are held during the weekdays and working parents can't really commit even if they want to. If the school really want the parents' help, they should plan more activities in the weekends.

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby pirate » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:33 pm

Lock wrote:So, what's my point? A good school is not one with excellent PSLE scores, nor one with excellent programmes but one that our kids can fit in and enjoy going to everyday. In that sense, all schools can be considered good schools as different kids have different needs and we have different types of school to cater to these needs. A parent's view of what's a good school can be quite different from a kid's view.

The problem is that the ability of a child to get into a certain primary school does not depend on whether that particular primary school is a good fit for that particular child. It depends on whether that child has a sibling already in that particular school, or a parent who is an alumni/clan or church member/grassroots leader, and/or lives within 1 or 2 km of that particular school.

In that sense, all primary schools can also potentially be bad schools since the ability of a child to get into a school is not necessarily determined by the child's needs or the ability of the school to cater to those needs.

:siam:

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Re: Your views - All are good school - maybe it's true?

Postby sushi88 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:05 pm

If MOE believes all primary schools are good schools, I wonder why MOE does not define a set of x schools to serve a boundary of y km worth of residences within it? After all distance has always been touted as the most important criteria. Then all the rest of the phase schemes can be abolished.

Call them Education District? Each education district has a mixture of established schools of >= 20 years, up and coming schools > 6 but < 20 years and new-age schools <=6 years to serve the needs of that district. Within those schools, the parents search for an ability and character fit of the school for their children, which means siblings can go to different schools.

Only when there are insufficient vacancies in some years, the next door district with vacancies can be opened for registration due to the overwhelming district for that year.

In doing so, we must be prepared to accept that there will be some richer education districts and some poorer ones which may affect school facilities offering if parents are willing to donate and upgrade the schools. The class system will become more evident, not by schools like today but by locations now.

This requires good skills and planning to cut the district maps well.

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