"With this Shield, or Upon It", 尽忠报国

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"With this Shield, or Upon It", 尽忠报国

Postby 3Boys » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:41 pm

It would appear that in romantisized 'olden' times, be it in Spartan or Chinese culture, the ideology of loyalty to country was parlayed strongly. It is interesting to note, apocryphal or not, that the phrases; "With this Shield, or Upon It" - Sparta, and "尽忠报国" - 中国, are attributed to MOTHERS admonishing their sons to do the best for their country, to the extent of sacrificing their lives.

Does that spirit exist today in modern Singapore? To what extent do we put the interests of others or our nation above those of our children and families? Is there a difference in how mothers and fathers view this?

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Postby skunk » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:52 pm

the best interests for our families and children should ideally be the same as the interests of the nation.

The nation is made up of individual families...indeed, the Nation exists after the Family exists, so theoratically, the interests of the Family must come first.

But ideally, they should be the same, so there is no conflict. The problem is, how many people actually see it that way.

I find that in SG, at least, there is such a major knee-jerk reaction to those anti-PAP, that they fail to see that the interests of the Nation might be different from the interests of the Party.

my 2 cents ;)

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Postby 3Boys » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:10 pm

skunk wrote:the best interests for our families and children should ideally be the same as the interests of the nation.

The nation is made up of individual families...indeed, the Nation exists after the Family exists, so theoratically, the interests of the Family must come first.

But ideally, they should be the same, so there is no conflict. The problem is, how many people actually see it that way.

I find that in SG, at least, there is such a major knee-jerk reaction to those anti-PAP, that they fail to see that the interests of the Nation might be different from the interests of the Party.

my 2 cents ;)


Truth is, they are often in conflict. Look at military service. It obviously serves a higher order purpose for the country, but of what immediate utility is it to a family? How about taxation? Again, a greater purpose, but taking money out of the immediate control of the family.

I support both of these, btw. My view is the reverse of yours, a strong nation with a strong economy and social structure sets the environment for strong families.

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Re: "With this Shield, or Upon It", 尽忠报国

Postby Way2GO » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:20 pm

3Boys wrote:Does that spirit exist today in modern Singapore?

IMO, by and large, no.
Such values were inculcated in the Chinese schools before they were dismantled.
Now, for the younger genz, it's more of a rat race where each's self interests is overriding.

If more understands skunk's view, that a nation and self cannot exist without the other, we will be better for it.

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Postby 3Boys » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:06 pm

Ladies, do the catch-phrases resonate with you? Will you send your sons out to battle?

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Postby Andaiz » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:08 pm

3Boys, I'd also send my DD's out to battle if need be. :wink:

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Postby skunk » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:15 pm

3Boys wrote:Truth is, they are often in conflict. Look at military service. It obviously serves a higher order purpose for the country, but of what immediate utility is it to a family? How about taxation? Again, a greater purpose, but taking money out of the immediate control of the family.

I support both of these, btw. My view is the reverse of yours, a strong nation with a strong economy and social structure sets the environment for strong families.


no military to protect the nation, means the nation might be subjugated in a war, which means families will be broken. Immediate utility? Tougher men in both mind and body? Without taxes, no gahment, no gahment, no nation, no nation, family in jeopardy lol

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Postby 3Boys » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:17 pm

skunk wrote:
3Boys wrote:Truth is, they are often in conflict. Look at military service. It obviously serves a higher order purpose for the country, but of what immediate utility is it to a family? How about taxation? Again, a greater purpose, but taking money out of the immediate control of the family.

I support both of these, btw. My view is the reverse of yours, a strong nation with a strong economy and social structure sets the environment for strong families.


no military to protect the nation, means the nation might be subjugated in a war, which means families will be broken. Immediate utility? Tougher men in both mind and body? Without taxes, no gahment, no gahment, no nation, no nation, family in jeopardy lol


I confused leh, I think we talking the same thing but how come it seems like the reverse?

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Postby 3Boys » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:18 pm

Andaiz wrote:3Boys, I'd also send my DD's out to battle if need be. :wink:


LOL :wink:

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Postby jedamum » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:35 pm

3Boys wrote:Does that spirit exist today in modern Singapore? To what extent do we put the interests of others or our nation above those of our children and families? Is there a difference in how mothers and fathers view this?

No, i will not put the interests of the nation above my children. Instead, I will respect whichever choices my sons will make with regards to this.

3Boys wrote:Ladies, do the catch-phrases resonate with you? Will you send your sons out to battle?

My husband is the only son and while his parents has their fair share of worries they did not in any way told my husband how he should lead his life in his line of work; in this respect, i hold them as my role-model.

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