MRT train killed 2

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tutormum
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Re: MRT trains collided and killed 2

Post by tutormum » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:24 pm

limlim wrote:
tutormum wrote:Even though it is deemed safe to go on the tracks when trains are in operation such risks shouldn't be taken. Why can't they stop the trains if die die must do the maintenance at that time. I'm sure passengers will understand if the delay is explained to them. One can't be too careful.
You must be kidding..... you drive?
Firstly, I'm not kidding when 2 lives are involved. Secondly, I don't drive and to be honest I rather take the bus than the train any time.

I agree there are risks in every day life. Walking outside my HDB flat also carries the risk of someone throwing something down and hit me. The grouse here is why risk is not minimised? If such risk is unavoidable, then just send 1 or 2 will do, why 15? I avoid walking under HDB flats, walk on the inner side of the pavement, wait till all vehicles stop at traffic junctions before crossing, to name a few. However, if after taking such preventive measures and an accident happens to me, I die also no words say lor.

If you look at the picture, there is only 1 train. Pasir Ris Station is the terminating station. That train could have used another track to arrive at the other platform. From the report (I'm not speculating hor) it seems that the train driver was not informed that there will be workers on the track so that he could keep a lookout. It was also reported that the staff was sent to investigate an signal fault and the simple procedure was to switch off the power if the need arises. Need 15 to do that? Even if they need to change some switches etc, they don't even need 5 not to mention 15. Even changing the whole length of wire also don't need so many people. In case you ask, my father was, and one of my uncles is, an electrician and I did learn from my dad when I was young. DH is very fortunate cos I'm the man in the house when it comes to changing light bulbs etc. I even do simple repair for household appliances. :wink:

If the fault is major, then it's time for an overhaul and it's another ball game. If it's necessary to stop train operations for a day or 2 for repairs, I'll be the first to kee chiu. Safety should be the first priority. Don't tell me that SMRT is afraid of public outcry when trains are out of service for maintenance but not afraid when lives are lost? Maybe the strawberry generation could prove that they are made of tougher material by giving up the convenience of taking the train for a day or 2. I grew up without MRT and travelled to work for about 2 hours from Bedok to Tengah on the bus.

Most of the people here are questioning the rationale taken to send those people onto the tracks and placing them on unnecessary risks. Even when workers prune trees, there is notices to inform drivers and the stretch is closed with traffic diverted to the remaining lanes. Using your example, why isn't the train diverted to the other platform and close that stretch of the track? If you notice, most of the tracks do not have that 0.5m pathway. How are repairs or maintenance carried out without closing the platforms?

In case you think I'm throwing stones at SMRT, sorry, I'm not. I just can't understand why the staff is sent onto the tracks when the train is in operation. In this case, one cannot be too kiasu or kiasi. The 2 young men were the same age as my DS1 and DS2. If they were my children, I will make sure that I leave no stone unturned. What if they are yours?

limlim
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Re: MRT trains collided and killed 2

Post by limlim » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:41 pm

tutormum wrote:
I just can't understand why the staff is sent onto the tracks when the train is in operation.
My reply to your post is only targeted at a single issue, why are staff sent onto the tracks when train is in operation, which you mentioned again above.

In your long post there are many valid points. But these talks about possible lapse in the process. If there are lapse in the process then the person responsible must be taken to task. I am not interested to debate about these points.

There is also again the question of whether the fault warrant immediate attention. If it does not warrant immediate attention and the staff are send down, then it is possible lapse again on the part of the person who is responsible in sending the staff down. Again I am not interested to debate on this.

Now, back to the main point. Assuming the fault requires immediate attention, and investigation can be reasonably carried out without disrupting train operations, then, it should be carried out w/o disruption train operations. Walking on the pathway do not pose reasonable risk to justify shutting down the lines as long as necessary precautions are taken. This is what I am trying to say. Look at those working outside high rise building or simply those working at high attitudes. There are risks, but the risk can be minimized by taking reasonable precautions.

You mentioned that the train service should be stopped. Can you imagine the impact on the transport network? If the issue can be investigate/resolved by sending a team down to rectify the electrical junction box w/o disruption to train operations, but the line is shut down simply because someone feels that it is unsafe to walk beside trains 1m away, how much $$$$$$ is wasted and how much inconvenience it would cause to how many commuters? As mentioned before, the distance is not much difference from that between a passenger on the yellow line and an approaching train. It is not necessarily high risk by reasonable measure.

Sending a team to investigate during normal train operation, in itself, is not wrong.

If you talk about other lapses, that is a different matter.

ChiefKiasu
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by ChiefKiasu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:55 pm

I think 2016 is the Year of "How Many Is Enough?". Ordinary citizens keep questioning why authorities need to have so many people doing this and that. I'm ordinary, so I'm piqued too. Why so many people have to make that ill-fated excursion har? It's like walking on the death row.

Other than that, the other question that is eating me up is... how come the train track can only be turned off by a switch that is like almost a quarter of a kilometer away from the station? One would have thought that the command centre would be able to turn on and off things across the whole network simply by pressing some buttons. It makes no sense from the design/safety point of view.

raysusan
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by raysusan » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:29 pm

happen to saw this

http://i.imgur.com/zklGYAv.jpg

at KBW fb the comments are so bad that the admin has to start delete them...

pirated
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by pirated » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:29 pm

Image


Space8
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by Space8 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:38 pm

Can someone explain the first paragraph to me in plain and simple english ::

"Before the team is allowed to step back on to the trackway, the following procedure must be carried out: The team must coordinate with the Signal unit at the station for oncoming trains to be brought to a stop and to ensure that no trains enter the affected sector. Our records do not show that this procedure took place.

Pasir Ris MRT station is a terminal station with two platforms. Trains arriving at Pasir Ris can berth at either platform. Trains can cross from one track to the other as they approach the station. In this accident, the train moving in automatic mode was routed to Platform 2. When the train captain saw staff on the track, he immediately applied emergency brakes but was unable to prevent the accident."

pirated
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by pirated » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:41 pm

raysusan wrote:happen to saw this

http://i.imgur.com/zklGYAv.jpg

at KBW fb the comments are so bad that the admin has to start delete them...
Image

jetsetter
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by jetsetter » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:45 pm

raysusan wrote:happen to saw this

http://i.imgur.com/zklGYAv.jpg

at KBW fb the comments are so bad that the admin has to start delete them...
why bother?

this writer already said it is just his "conjecture" in the last para.

read SMRT statement more accurate. no wonder khaw's team deleted this crap.

Jennifer
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Re: MRT trains collided and killed 2

Post by Jennifer » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:41 pm

tutormum wrote:
limlim wrote:
tutormum wrote:Even though it is deemed safe to go on the tracks when trains are in operation such risks shouldn't be taken. Why can't they stop the trains if die die must do the maintenance at that time. I'm sure passengers will understand if the delay is explained to them. One can't be too careful.
You must be kidding..... you drive?
Firstly, I'm not kidding when 2 lives are involved. Secondly, I don't drive and to be honest I rather take the bus than the train any time.

I agree there are risks in every day life. Walking outside my HDB flat also carries the risk of someone throwing something down and hit me. The grouse here is why risk is not minimised? If such risk is unavoidable, then just send 1 or 2 will do, why 15? I avoid walking under HDB flats, walk on the inner side of the pavement, wait till all vehicles stop at traffic junctions before crossing, to name a few. However, if after taking such preventive measures and an accident happens to me, I die also no words say lor.

If you look at the picture, there is only 1 train. Pasir Ris Station is the terminating station. That train could have used another track to arrive at the other platform. From the report (I'm not speculating hor) it seems that the train driver was not informed that there will be workers on the track so that he could keep a lookout. It was also reported that the staff was sent to investigate an signal fault and the simple procedure was to switch off the power if the need arises. Need 15 to do that? Even if they need to change some switches etc, they don't even need 5 not to mention 15. Even changing the whole length of wire also don't need so many people. In case you ask, my father was, and one of my uncles is, an electrician and I did learn from my dad when I was young. DH is very fortunate cos I'm the man in the house when it comes to changing light bulbs etc. I even do simple repair for household appliances. :wink:

If the fault is major, then it's time for an overhaul and it's another ball game. If it's necessary to stop train operations for a day or 2 for repairs, I'll be the first to kee chiu. Safety should be the first priority. Don't tell me that SMRT is afraid of public outcry when trains are out of service for maintenance but not afraid when lives are lost? Maybe the strawberry generation could prove that they are made of tougher material by giving up the convenience of taking the train for a day or 2. I grew up without MRT and travelled to work for about 2 hours from Bedok to Tengah on the bus.

Most of the people here are questioning the rationale taken to send those people onto the tracks and placing them on unnecessary risks. Even when workers prune trees, there is notices to inform drivers and the stretch is closed with traffic diverted to the remaining lanes. Using your example, why isn't the train diverted to the other platform and close that stretch of the track? If you notice, most of the tracks do not have that 0.5m pathway. How are repairs or maintenance carried out without closing the platforms?

In case you think I'm throwing stones at SMRT, sorry, I'm not. I just can't understand why the staff is sent onto the tracks when the train is in operation. In this case, one cannot be too kiasu or kiasi. The 2 young men were the same age as my DS1 and DS2. If they were my children, I will make sure that I leave no stone unturned. What if they are yours?

When I first saw the news on Yahoo, my first thought were : how could the accident not be prevented???

RIP :pray:

pirate
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Re: MRT train killed 2

Post by pirate » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:17 pm

Space8 wrote:Can someone explain the first paragraph to me in plain and simple english ::

"Before the team is allowed to step back on to the trackway, the following procedure must be carried out: The team must coordinate with the Signal unit at the station for oncoming trains to be brought to a stop and to ensure that no trains enter the affected sector. Our records do not show that this procedure took place.
Before stepping from the walkway to the trackway, the team is supposed to inform the signal unit at the station "please stop all incoming trains because we are on the trackway". It appears from the records that the team did not inform the signal unit.

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