The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

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thsheng99
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by thsheng99 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:48 am

Dont forget that the 99yrs lease starts when the developer acquire the land, not when it TOP or collect your keys. Many people forget about this pt

mummychua
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by mummychua » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:54 am

by the way we have 99yr leasehold pte condo too. for these ppl their loss is even bigger.

everyone in Singapore see property as a way to get rich. it might be true 20, 30yrs ago but it is hardly true now. with the price so high, how much higher can regular Singaporean afford to pay?

thsheng99
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by thsheng99 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 am

mummychua wrote:by the way we have 99yr leasehold pte condo too. for these ppl their loss is even bigger.

everyone in Singapore see property as a way to get rich. it might be true 20, 30yrs ago but it is hardly true now. with the price so high, how much higher can regular Singaporean afford to pay?
The size of the unit has been shrinking to maintain affordability. However the psf has been climbing steadily over the years. The recent splat of enblocs has caused it to rise even more steeply. Areas like Bukit Timah already surpased $2000psq and still going up quickly

janet88
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by janet88 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:08 am

Cloud Cloud wrote: Youngsters now tend to spend on luxurious wedding. I recently attended a wedding banquet which cost the couple about $80k. I thought the money could have been used to clear part of the housing loan.

My neighbour (bought bto 10 years back) told me she cleared her loan within 7 years. She then quit her job to be sahm.
given the job insecurity now, it's really risky to take mortgage stretched to the max.
buying a flat which costs $700K onwards without parents' help means the couple will be a slave to the flat.
neither can quit...especially the wife if she decides to be a SAHM to attend to the kids.

true, not many beyond 99...but after some time, people may want to have a change of environment. for those who buy 99 lease hold condo, it will be harder to sell.

floppy
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by floppy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:16 am

mummychua wrote:by the way we have 99yr leasehold pte condo too. for these ppl their loss is even bigger.
On private property, it depends. Private property owners have several tools at their disposal which is not available to HDB ‘owners’ which can effectively mitigate their losses.

Firstly, there’s the enbloc tool. As long as private property owners don’t wait till the lease on the land runs low (e.g. < ~ 50 years), they can, collectively, opt to sell their property - something that HDB dwellers can’t decide on their own.

Secondly, developers can opt to top up the lease to 99 years by paying all the relevant charges as long as it makes economic sense to do so. Developer would be less concerned about paying high if they can effectively sell higher (say hi to new citizens / immigrants and investors who love Singapore).

Third option is probably the owner’s nuclear option. If the private property gets too old and too expensive to maintain, there is less incentive for private owners to continue to own / maintain it to a very high standard (see Pearl Bank Apartments). HDB, being public housing, the G LPPL has to maintain it. If the threat of urban blight increases, the G of the day will probably have to incentivize developers to buy / redevelop and for owners to sell.



thsheng99
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by thsheng99 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Funny that HDB RESALE prices have fallen but condo resale price is going up and up
————————————————-
HDB resale prices have fallen for six consecutive quarters: Flash data from the HDB showed that resale flat prices fell 0.8 per cent in the first quarter of this year from the previous quarter, a faster rate of decline compared to the 0.2 per cent drop seen in the last three months of 2017.

As of December 2016, there were a total of about one million HDB flats in Singapore. Among these, about 7 per cent were at least 40 years old. Another 29 per cent were between 30 and 40 years old, HDB had previously said.

Singapore’s oldest estates include Queenstown, Tanjong Pagar and Bedok South. Most, if not all, the older HDB flats have at least 40 years of the 99-year lease remaining, and there is still a resale value, analysts had noted.


https://www.todayonline.com/singapor...-will-not-last

mummychua
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by mummychua » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:14 pm

floppy wrote:
mummychua wrote:by the way we have 99yr leasehold pte condo too. for these ppl their loss is even bigger.
On private property, it depends. Private property owners have several tools at their disposal which is not available to HDB ‘owners’ which can effectively mitigate their losses.

Firstly, there’s the enbloc tool. As long as private property owners don’t wait till the lease on the land runs low (e.g. < ~ 50 years), they can, collectively, opt to sell their property - something that HDB dwellers can’t decide on their own.

Secondly, developers can opt to top up the lease to 99 years by paying all the relevant charges as long as it makes economic sense to do so. Developer would be less concerned about paying high if they can effectively sell higher (say hi to new citizens / immigrants and investors who love Singapore).

Third option is probably the owner’s nuclear option. If the private property gets too old and too expensive to maintain, there is less incentive for private owners to continue to own / maintain it to a very high standard (see Pearl Bank Apartments). HDB, being public housing, the G LPPL has to maintain it. If the threat of urban blight increases, the G of the day will probably have to incentivize developers to buy / redevelop and for owners to sell.
other than those development that got en-bloc, i have never heard of pte condo getting a lease extension. correct me if im wrong.

it is possible for those underdeveloped plots to be en-bloc, but what about those that had max out their plot ratio? which developer will en-bloc them 20-30yrs down the road?

the use of cpf and the amt of bank loan is the same for the purchase of old leasehold condo and hdb.

floppy
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by floppy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:59 pm

mummychua wrote:
other than those development that got en-bloc, i have never heard of pte condo getting a lease extension. correct me if im wrong.

it is possible for those underdeveloped plots to be en-bloc, but what about those that had max out their plot ratio? which developer will en-bloc them 20-30yrs down the road?

the use of cpf and the amt of bank loan is the same for the purchase of old leasehold condo and hdb.
You are not wrong about not hearing of pte condo getting a lease extension.
Probably due to a combination of factors:
1. None is at risk of running out of their lease... yet. Oldest probably still has 50(?) more years to go.
2. Most at-risk has chosen the enbloc route (and let someone deal with the problem). Pearl Bank Apartments is probably one such example. I suspect others like Golden Mile Complex, The Plaza, Hillcrest Arcadia, etc would be taking this route (if they haven't) as well.

As for which developer will en-bloc those that had max out their plot ratio 20-30yrs down the road? The developer that can get a good bargain out of them. If profit = revenue less cost, as long as the cost of redevelopment is reasonable, it's always possible. While owners shouldn't be expecting a profit in such cases (and why it makes no sense for owners to run down the lease), it is about mitigating their losses (compared that vs zero when lease runs out).

love1001
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Re: The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats

Post by love1001 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:20 pm

In conclusion, unless extremely enticing, one should be extra careful not to purchase a flat that is close to 35 years. Imagine the moment you stay for 5 years and try to re-sell, it already hit the big 40 and it is going to be extremely challenging.

I realize property agents do not even indicate age of flat when they list the unit in property guru, especially those in mature estate.

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