Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

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deron
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by deron » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:45 pm

Personally think that if possible, reduce as much damage as possible.. scrap this streaming nonsense with immediate effect. How many children/ parents have been negatively affected by this?

phtthp
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by phtthp » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:48 pm

maybe find out from your child's school Principal, whether your school is amongst those 25 Secondary schools short-listed (targeted) for pilot run test starting next year 2020. If Yes, will be great, instead of still got to wait until neck so long until 2024. The faster, the earlier they implement in our schools, the better. No more Sec 5 (zhong wu)

Coolkidsrock2
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by Coolkidsrock2 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:22 pm

There are major downstream impacts e.g. scrapping of O levels and N levels which are to be replaced by a common national exam, mapping of the G1, G2 and G3 grades to JCs and polytechnics cut-off scores, subject offerings, etc.

The schools that are offering similar are still working within the existing framework of the current system.

Given the large number of students impacted and the extensiveness of the change, it will be prudent to implement it slowly.

floppy
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by floppy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:41 pm

Coolkidsrock2 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:22 pm
There are major downstream impacts e.g. scrapping of O levels and N levels which are to be replaced by a common national exam, mapping of the G1, G2 and G3 grades to JCs and polytechnics cut-off scores, subject offerings, etc.

The schools that are offering similar are still working within the existing framework of the current system.

Given the large number of students impacted and the extensiveness of the change, it will be prudent to implement it slowly.
Mapping G1, G2 and G3 to NT, NA and Express is the easiest part of the exercise.

The hardest part is establishing a reasonable admission system for post-Secondary education to JC, poly or ITE. Polys and ITEs need to reassess and determine what’s the criteria for entry to their courses. Unlike JC that’s operating on a uniform L1B5 system, each course in each poly operates independently from one another due to the differing R2 pre-requisites. ITE would need to establish the cutoff for NITEC and Higher NITEC. Four years seem like a reasonable timeline for them to get ready.
Last edited by floppy on Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CatMoon
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Re: Express or Normal Academic

Post by CatMoon » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:43 pm

janet88 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:07 pm
the worse is when teachers see NA students as incapable of going further.
I'm ok kids take a longer time if they are slow...but when students are demoralised because of the teachers' attitude towards them, it hurts their self-esteem badly.
Totally agree! :goodpost:

Having gone through the NA route with my older kid during her secondary school days, it broke our hearts to hear my girl come home and repeat some of the demoralising comments made by the teachers & VP during her 5 years there.

To summarise, they kept pressuring the girls to leave school after N-levels.

To discourage the girls from continuing on to take O-levels, the teachers often make comments like "Aiyah, surely fail", "you girls can't do as well as the express girls", "O-level exams too difficult", "your N-level grades will drop by 2 grades in O-level", "how can you do O-levels? The gap is too big" and many more demoralising comments.

I understand that N-level students don't receive the same resources as the Express girls - but I was shocked to find that the school only planned for 9 lab lessons (chemistry) for the Sec 5 O-level class, especially when the girls only had a handful of lab lessons the previous 4 years. A few were afraid of lighting the bunsen burner!

Why can't the school give these kids a chance to try and prove themselves? Why write them off so early?

We've read about success stories in the newspapers of kids who - despite the system / family circumstances - remain in the education system, worked hard, believed in themselves & proved that they can succeed academically too.

Yes, some kids do need more time for their studies, but I personally feel that the streaming has gotten so out of hand over last decade that 40% of our kids are streamed down every year. Our kids don't need more boulders thrown at them every time they try to get back up.


rong50
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Re: Express or Normal Academic

Post by rong50 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:53 pm

CatMoon wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:43 pm
janet88 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:07 pm
the worse is when teachers see NA students as incapable of going further.
I'm ok kids take a longer time if they are slow...but when students are demoralised because of the teachers' attitude towards them, it hurts their self-esteem badly.
Totally agree! :goodpost:

Having gone through the NA route with my older kid during her secondary school days, it broke our hearts to hear my girl come home and repeat some of the demoralising comments made by the teachers & VP during her 5 years there.

To summarise, they kept pressuring the girls to leave school after N-levels.

To discourage the girls from continuing on to take O-levels, the teachers often make comments like "Aiyah, surely fail", "you girls can't do as well as the express girls", "O-level exams too difficult", "your N-level grades will drop by 2 grades in O-level", "how can you do O-levels? The gap is too big" and many more demoralising comments.

I understand that N-level students don't receive the same resources as the Express girls - but I was shocked to find that the school only planned for 9 lab lessons (chemistry) for the Sec 5 O-level class, especially when the girls only had a handful of lab lessons the previous 4 years. A few were afraid of lighting the bunsen burner!

Why can't the school give these kids a chance to try and prove themselves? Why write them off so early?

We've read about success stories in the newspapers of kids who - despite the system / family circumstances - remain in the education system, worked hard, believed in themselves & proved that they can succeed academically too.

Yes, some kids do need more time for their studies, but I personally feel that the streaming has gotten so out of hand over last decade that 40% of our kids are streamed down every year. Our kids don't need more boulders thrown at them every time they try to get back up.
agree with you!

Coolkidsrock2
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by Coolkidsrock2 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:57 pm

floppy wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:41 pm
Coolkidsrock2 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:22 pm
There are major downstream impacts e.g. scrapping of O levels and N levels which are to be replaced by a common national exam, mapping of the G1, G2 and G3 grades to JCs and polytechnics cut-off scores, subject offerings, etc.

The schools that are offering similar are still working within the existing framework of the current system.

Given the large number of students impacted and the extensiveness of the change, it will be prudent to implement it slowly.
Mapping G1, G2 and G3 to NT, NA and Express is the easiest part of the exercise.

The hardest part is establishing a reasonable admission system for post-Secondary education to JC, poly or ITE. Polys and ITEs need to reassess and determine what’s the criteria for entry to their courses. Unlike JC that’s operating on a uniform L1B5 system, each course in each poly operates independently from one another due to the differing R2 pre-requisites. ITE would need to establish the cutoff for NITEC and Higher NITEC. Four years seem like a reasonable timeline for them to get ready.
Am totally with you.

There will be a lot of details that need to be iron out.

It will be a common exam by Singapore and Cambridge at the end of the 4 years.

janet88
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by janet88 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:31 pm

N levels is VERY hard because the students have to learn what they weren't taught at Sec 4N compared to the express stream. NA students have to adjust quickly to be on par with the sec 4 express students...this is why many are very stressed out. although the entire secondary syllabus is spread over 5 years to cater to slower students (sounds nice lah) but these NA students are not prepared for the exam because they are not taught the syllabus compared to Sec 4 express students.

if this is so, I do mind my daughter is in normal academic stream because N levels (aka O levels) at sec 5 is definitely something she will have difficulty facing. the syllabus is not to her advantage.

starlight1968sg
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by starlight1968sg » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:37 pm

OT: those academic better students shld take more exams yet they are not. those academic less inclined students were made to go thru rounds of exams. WHY?

Is G1, G2 & G3 a mere change in the names ie "change soup but didn't change the ingredients" ?

Teachers teaching in Normal stream should be even more patient to assist the kids unless they give up themselves.

janet88
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Re: Abolishing Streaming in Secondary Schools: Netizens React

Post by janet88 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:38 pm

starlight1968sg wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:37 pm
OT: those academic better students shld take more exams yet they are not. those academic less inclined students were made to go thru rounds of exams. WHY?

Is G1, G2 & G3 a mere change in the names ie "change soup but didn't change the ingredients" ?

Teachers teaching in Normal stream should be even more patient to assist the kids unless they give up themselves.
starlight,
you made a good point.
why must normal stream students be made to take exams at Sec 4N before they can go on to Sec 5? it just doesn't make sense at all.

the stakes are so high for them at sec 4N. G1 for N technical, G2 N normal acad G3 express.

teachers should look down on NA students they can't go far.

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