Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student?

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Can child care reject hyper active or dyslexia student?

Postby happydaddy » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:38 pm

My son CC has a nuisance classmate in K2. He is hyper active. He creates a list of problem for the teacher and disturb his classmate.

Recently my kid has a fight with him as he keep disturbing him. What action can we done to get rid of this kid? Can he attend normal CC? or special need shool? Can the school expel him? Having hyper active and dyslexia kids really make the centre looks dis-organise.

happydaddy
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Postby JonC » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:22 am

Hyper active kids are very active and sometime beyond control.

Dyslexic kids may not be like the hyper active, their problem is they cannot read and they are controllable and some are the quite introvert just like any normal child.

Autistic is another different condition totally.

Some children may have 1 or more of the above probem together.

I think you are confused and mixed them up and generalise them as one.

I think CC if they know in advance may not accept a hyper active kids. But since he/she is here, they have no right to remove him/her too.

The only 2 choice you have is either you change to another CC or ask your kid to avoid him/her, not because of his/her condition but to avoid fighting with each other.

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Postby jedamum » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:26 am

not sure about CC, but for enrichment centres, they have all the right to remove any kid due to disruption of class - read the enrolment/registration booklet for details.
instead of asking for expulsion of special needs kid, maybe you can seek the management's opinion on how can they ensure that adequate steps are in place to ensure safety of students and that special needs and normal kids can co-exist together.
sometimes (not all times, i qualify), some hyper kids need a lot of space, have big actions and have difficulties waiting for their turn. this resulted in invading of space of normal kids eg pushing those in front in a queue. as a result, normal kids viewed such actions as hostile and retaliate. as my ds2 is on the hyper-list, he was punched in the eye by a fellow friend as a result. he has difficulty queuing up for his turn and resulted in pushing those queuing in front of him; i personally overheard the teacher warned 'no fighting' to have the boy answered 'but XYZ (ie ds2) pushed me!' as they walked down the stairs during dismissal. i am grateful that the teachers and the preschool makes the extra effort in handling my boy (the principal even assisted in handling him personally during dismissal time) and i am doing my best to ensure that he has no/less discipline/temper issues despite his activeness.
parents with special needs kid are already facing an uphill task in the parenting department, i think the least they hope for is for their kids to be accepted in mainstream education.

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Postby WaWa » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:05 pm

I'm indeed shocked & saddened to read this post.

HappyDaddy : I certainly hope your son was not too badly hurt in the fight. If so, i hope he recovers fast enough & be well again. My Blessings.

I am however appalled by your choice of words.. eg calling a hyperactive kid "nuisance" & using words like "get rid" & "expel" shows how self-centred & intolerant you are towards the less fortunate / disadvantaged kids. I hope you do not tell/brainwash your son that his classmate is a "nuisance" & start giving your son negative connotations of "special needs" children hence.

In fact i feel you should be glad that your son is sharing the same classroom as a special needs kid as this means he is given a chance to see how "blessed" he is to be born a normal child as opposed to his "less fortunate" classmate who is born w a condition (ie the boy u called "a nuisance") and this also teaches your child about acceptance & diversity at a raw age.... and of course , Tolerance .. which you do not seem to possess.

I agree with both JonC & Jedamum. Parents of special needs children are already facing an uphill task trying to guide & nurture their kids well. The last we want is for society to ostracize them without even giving them a chance to try to integrate into society, especially at such a raw age. And as it is, with parents like you, most , if not all special needs kids, are "already ostracized". They are not even given a chance to integrate and without this chance, they will never be close to normal like your blessed son.

Instead of pressurizing the CC to "get rid or expel" the boy, i agree with JonC that you should be addressing your concern with the CC, asking them what plans /procedures they have in place to ensure such "misunderstanding amongst the children leading to fights" does not happen again. And if you still are not satisfied with your kid sharing the same classroom with a special needs child, i guess the next best alternative is to remove your own child & make sure your child's next CC has only normal kids who are not "nuisance"!

Let me remind you that fights amongst kids (esp boys) happens everywhere, even amongst the very normal kids ... and it is all part & parcel of growing up. Parents should use this opportunity to guide their children appropriately (ie how to make up, teach them how put away such misunderstandings, to continue to forgive & be friends again ....live & let live, so to speak.)

I am not saying the "nuisance kid" u so-described has no fault to play ... I am just saying that just because your son fought w him, he has to be expelled? Or do you want him expelled because he is not "normal"? What if your son fought with another boy who is normal? Shall we then expel both the kids?

Singapore is a multi-racial , multi-religious country. If we can tolerate all race & religions living together harmoniously , we can tolerate special needs kids. We just have to "manage the situation positively" by addressing all areas of concern with the right level of maturity to the relevant authority (in this case, the CC).

I am sure my post will not go down well with you but i hope you can reflect on your choice of words & reflect on your attitude towards families with special needs kids. You are blessed to have a normal child - think: if your child is born with hyperactivity or any other condition, will you want parents of your child's CC asking for your son to be expelled?

WaWa
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Postby 2ppaamm » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:50 pm

WaWa wrote:I'm indeed shocked & saddened to read this post.

HappyDaddy : I certainly hope your son was not too badly hurt in the fight. If so, i hope he recovers fast enough & be well again. My Blessings.

I am however appalled by your choice of words.. eg calling a hyperactive kid "nuisance" & using words like "get rid" & "expel" shows how self-centred & intolerant you are towards the less fortunate / disadvantaged kids. I hope you do not tell/brainwash your son that his classmate is a "nuisance" & start giving your son negative connotations of "special needs" children hence.

In fact i feel you should be glad that your son is sharing the same classroom as a special needs kid as this means he is given a chance to see how "blessed" he is to be born a normal child as opposed to his "less fortunate" classmate who is born w a condition (ie the boy u called "a nuisance") and this also teaches your child about acceptance & diversity at a raw age.... and of course , Tolerance .. which you do not seem to possess.

I agree with both JonC & Jedamum. Parents of special needs children are already facing an uphill task trying to guide & nurture their kids well. The last we want is for society to ostracize them without even giving them a chance to try to integrate into society, especially at such a raw age. And as it is, with parents like you, most , if not all special needs kids, are "already ostracized". They are not even given a chance to integrate and without this chance, they will never be close to normal like your blessed son.

Instead of pressurizing the CC to "get rid or expel" the boy, i agree with JonC that you should be addressing your concern with the CC, asking them what plans /procedures they have in place to ensure such "misunderstanding amongst the children leading to fights" does not happen again. And if you still are not satisfied with your kid sharing the same classroom with a special needs child, i guess the next best alternative is to remove your own child & make sure your child's next CC has only normal kids who are not "nuisance"!

Let me remind you that fights amongst kids (esp boys) happens everywhere, even amongst the very normal kids ... and it is all part & parcel of growing up. Parents should use this opportunity to guide their children appropriately (ie how to make up, teach them how put away such misunderstandings, to continue to forgive & be friends again ....live & let live, so to speak.)

I am not saying the "nuisance kid" u so-described has no fault to play ... I am just saying that just because your son fought w him, he has to be expelled? Or do you want him expelled because he is not "normal"? What if your son fought with another boy who is normal? Shall we then expel both the kids?

Singapore is a multi-racial , multi-religious country. If we can tolerate all race & religions living together harmoniously , we can tolerate special needs kids. We just have to "manage the situation positively" by addressing all areas of concern with the right level of maturity to the relevant authority (in this case, the CC).

I am sure my post will not go down well with you but i hope you can reflect on your choice of words & reflect on your attitude towards families with special needs kids. You are blessed to have a normal child - think: if your child is born with hyperactivity or any other condition, will you want parents of your child's CC asking for your son to be expelled?

:goodpost: As a mother of a special needs child, I know how it feels when being ostracized by parents. In fact, there is no sympathy at all. To some extent, as Singapore becomes more affluent, we are all stepping on each other to move ahead faster. So much so that kids with special needs are no longer entitled to the same treatment. I certainly feel this way. I had to pull my son out of his swimming classes 7 times because parents just insist their children cannot be in the same class as my son. All because they kick each other. When my son is kicked, I tell him to forgive and forget, it is a swimming class after all. If my son kicks them, it will surely be a big hoo ha, with them insisting my son be removed because he is very big sized in addition to poor social skills.

So, why is it that special needs kids have to move and avoid normal kids?

I wonder how it is like in other countries, and how Michael Phelps emerged a superman in his area, being ADHD.

2ppaamm
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Postby happydaddy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:21 pm

the reason i say that is that, the teacher simply cannot manage the class. Or should i say, the teacher is too stress out by this nuisance kid.

Imagine, 20 kids in the class, and the teacher attention is 100% on that hyper active kid.

If the teacher can control him, i do not mind, but the fact is, the CC cannot handle it and a lot of parents is complaining, not only me. Nothing is done on the CC.

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Postby 2ppaamm » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:37 pm

insider wrote:
happydaddy wrote:Nothing is done on the CC.


Your child is in a PCF / NTUC centre? If it is, then more difficult to 'remove' the child else if letter written to Forum then gahment will have hard times defending themselves. If it is a private centre and then they are not doing anything (which I agree class size 20 incl of a spec child is too much for any teacher to handle. Such arrangement is not fair to the spec child and the other children as well).

If child is in gahment's centre, you have little chance of getting what you want (coz it is not supposed to be profit-geared but social responsibility geared). If private one, gang up with a few parents and write a petition to the centre, stating that you can empathise with the spec child but the situation is not ideal and they have to engage a teacher assistant to help the main teacher else whoever signed will withdraw. If a private centre is really keen to help spec children, they also have to weigh whether they have the human resource (quality and quantity) available or not. If don't have, then a spec child staying there also not really beneficial. Think this 'strategy' may benefit all...

All the best!

Just curious, how would a primary school, with 30 in a class handle?

I met with a teacher in my son's school recently. She was a SNO (Special Needs Officer), and now a teacher. She told me that she had 15 cases of special needs in her class last year.

This year, she has 11 confirmed cases (with papers) and 3 more to be diagnosed. I asked her if she had such a high proportion of special cases because she was a SNO. She told me every class is the same. We are talking about a class of 30.

So, with more and more of our children being diagnosed. How will 'normal' kids adapt to all these special needs children? Remove them one by one? Or get the teachers trained? Obviously there is a gap here. In the child care, we can move our own children out, in a primary school, it becomes much more challenging.

2ppaamm
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Postby happydaddy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:52 pm

insider wrote:
2ppaamm wrote:

Just curious, how would a primary school, with 30 in a class handle?


Not sure coz not in the primary school sector but think now all schools have some spec teachers? Childcare has a lot of routine care (makan / shower / toileting. 1 teacher will be very difficult.

For 6 years old, ideal class size is about 15 for optimal learning. My take is if there is a spec child (not severe kind) in a class, have to minus off about 3 kids (meaning if class size is 15, to put a spec child in without any teacher assistant will reduce the class size to about 11 + 1 spec child - 12 children. If want to stick to 15, then need a teacher asst).

PS: Spec teachers' salary usually quite high and most centres cannot afford to have one (but getting an asst teacher to help around is affordable...)[/quote]

and you are right. Those CC with spec teacher fee are way too high for them.

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Postby happydaddy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:54 pm

insider wrote:
happydaddy wrote:Nothing is done on the CC.


Your child is in a PCF / NTUC centre? If it is, then more difficult to 'remove' the child else if letter written to Forum then gahment will have hard times defending themselves. If it is a private centre and then they are not doing anything (which I agree class size 20 incl of a spec child is too much for any teacher to handle. Such arrangement is not fair to the spec child and the other children as well).

If child is in gahment's centre, you have little chance of getting what you want (coz it is not supposed to be profit-geared but social responsibility geared). If private one, gang up with a few parents and write a petition to the centre, stating that you can empathise with the spec child but the situation is not ideal and they have to engage a teacher assistant to help the main teacher else whoever signed will withdraw. If a private centre is really keen to help spec children, they also have to weigh whether they have the human resource (quality and quantity) available or not. If don't have, then a spec child staying there also not really beneficial. Think this 'strategy' may benefit all...

All the best!


private CC. Come feb, 6 kids withdraw from the class. Unless the operator do something, i think come march another 6 will leave.

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Postby 2ppaamm » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:57 pm

insider wrote:Not sure coz not in the primary school sector but think now all schools have some spec teachers? Childcare has a lot of routine care (makan / shower / toileting. 1 teacher will be very difficult.

For 6 years old, ideal class size is about 15 for optimal learning. My take is if there is a spec child (not severe kind) in a class, have to minus off about 3 kids (meaning if class size is 15, to put a spec child in without any teacher assistant will reduce the class size to about 11 + 1 spec child - 12 children. If want to stick to 15, then need a teacher asst).

PS: Spec teachers' salary usually quite high and most centres cannot afford to have one (but getting an asst teacher to help around is affordable...)

In the primary schools, about 1 or 2 SNO in the whole school. We are talking about 1:tens. Also, no chance of getting more teachers in a class or reduce class size in a govt school, even at primary 1, which is 6 to 7 years old as well.

Also, a teacher aide can be placed, but on the parent's full expense. Even more impossible.

Really, if the child care's situation is bad, think about how it will be like in primary school. My other son (not special needs) has a pretty severe case in his class and a teacher aide is involved. He gets into trouble quite a bit. We all just have work with this kid, and we have to teach and educate our own kids to deal and empathize with him. After all, it is indeed a blessing to be normal, and to have a kid like this in the same classroom only amplifies the blessing of being normal. Most importantly, I teach my son not to ostracize him, and befriend him if this boy is ready.

It is better to be on the 'normal' side than the other. Trust me.

2ppaamm
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