Networking Group - JCs General

Is there life after O/A-Levels? Definitely! How well a person does in tertiary education is correlated with job opportunities open to the person. Discuss issues pertaining to nstitutes of higher learning here.
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zeemimi
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Re: Re:

Post by zeemimi » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:28 pm

stetan wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:55 pm
ynwa9 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:38 pm
It is very clearly stated in the JAE admission booklet that the admission criteria are net L1R5, citizenship, gross L1R5. If still tied, it says that there will be a computerized ballot with EQUAL CHANCE given to candidates. No where does it mention that the order in which the JC was selected matter. So it means that if two students have identical nett and gross scores apply and both are citizens, it theoretically should not matter if the student put the JC as 1st choice or 3rd choice? Can someone shed some light on this because I keep hearing people say that that is not the case and that the student who put the JC as 1st choice would be given priority.
Consider this scenerio, the JC has 100 places

Computer consider round 1 : 1st choices of all students. At this round 100 students of COP 7 chose the JC and got in

Student B have the same COP 7 but only put the JC as 3rd choice ( which I presume the computer will process in round 3, correct me if I am wrong). But all places have already been filled in Round 1

I may be wrong though
I think allocation is by merit.
All the 2 pointers will be considered first. Followed by the 3 pointers, 4, 5, 6, ......
For the above scenario, student B will be considered together with all the 7 pointers. If he doesn't qualify for the 1st and 2nd choice, he competes on the 3rd choice together with all the other 7 pointers.
I believe the allocation task is easily solved using AI. Just input all the requirements. While human uses sequential logic, the computer is capable of processing multiple values concurrently.
So barring any computer bugs, student B should not miss 3rd choice to someone who has put the sch as 1st choice, assuming they get the same COP 7.

FantasyLandDreams
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Re: Networking Group - JCs General

Post by FantasyLandDreams » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:41 pm


anxious.dad
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Re: Re:

Post by anxious.dad » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:37 am

floppy wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:26 pm
stetan wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:55 pm
ynwa9 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:38 pm
It is very clearly stated in the JAE admission booklet that the admission criteria are net L1R5, citizenship, gross L1R5. If still tied, it says that there will be a computerized ballot with EQUAL CHANCE given to candidates. No where does it mention that the order in which the JC was selected matter. So it means that if two students have identical nett and gross scores apply and both are citizens, it theoretically should not matter if the student put the JC as 1st choice or 3rd choice? Can someone shed some light on this because I keep hearing people say that that is not the case and that the student who put the JC as 1st choice would be given priority.
Consider this scenerio, the JC has 100 places

Computer consider round 1 : 1st choices of all students. At this round 100 students of COP 7 chose the JC and got in

Student B have the same COP 7 but only put the JC as 3rd choice ( which I presume the computer will process in round 3, correct me if I am wrong). But all places have already been filled in Round 1

I may be wrong though
Choice order doesn’t matter. The rounds isn’t determined by choice order, the computer goes by your net score.

Based on your example. If student B 1st choice is COP 5, 2nd choice is COP 6, he would have not made it to the first two choices. He will be processed for his 3rd choice school with COP 7 along with all the 100 students who list the JC as first choice. In short, all places cannot be filled up until students of the same net score have been considered.
I have problem comprehending the posting procedure. With the S1 posting, the students are ranked, the computer processed the choices of each student in sequence as I understand that there will not be many students with the exact same tscore. For JAE, using the scenario above, how can the computer fulfill the choices of all nett 7 pointers? As they are considered equal, who should be given a spot first? In the flowchart below (extracted from pg 15 of the JAE booklet), "1st Choice" is mentioned in the 1st decision making cell. Since all nett 7 pointers are considered equal, does the computer post the 7 pointers to their 1st choice course provided they met the course requirement before processing the second choice of the students? The computer ballot is meant for the Last Vacancy likely to be among Singapore citizens with the same gross aggregate score.

Image

floppy
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Re: Re:

Post by floppy » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:51 am

anxious.dad wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:37 am

I have problem comprehending the posting procedure. With the S1 posting, the students are ranked, the computer processed the choices of each student in sequence as I understand that there will not be many students with the exact same tscore. For JAE, using the scenario above, how can the computer fulfill the choices of all nett 7 pointers? As they are considered equal, who should be given a spot first? In the flowchart below (extracted from pg 15 of the JAE booklet), "1st Choice" is mentioned in the 1st decision making cell. Since all nett 7 pointers are considered equal, does the computer post the 7 pointers to their 1st choice course provided they met the course requirement before processing the second choice of the students? The computer ballot is meant for the Last Vacancy likely to be among Singapore citizens with the same gross aggregate score.

Image
Ok. I understand the confusion now :lol:

You have to refer to the start of the flow - Consider all applicants in order of merit.

The choices apply if you don’t hit a snag. When there’s a snag, you need to differentiate them. While all net 7 pointers are considered equal, some are more equal than others. That’s where comparison of the various 7 sub-classes appear: citizenship, followed by raw 7, 8-1, 9-2, 10-3 and lastly 11-4. Choice order does NOT feature or matter in the comparison.

Like S1 posting, what this means is students have to be aware of the various tie-breaking rules. If you are net 7 pointer but non-SC, you are not favored to (and probably won’t) get into a school with COP 7. Likewise, if you are a 11-4, you might want to consider a school with COP 8 to max your chances instead. If you think a 11-4 is maximizing his chance by having the COP 7 choice school as his first choice, think again!

While there may be a lot of net 7 points, once you work though the various tie breakers and courses/ selections, the numbers left are often not that big in each sub-classes (still more than t-score not much lesser than a unfiltered net 7). Usually, people are posted to their lower choices not because of ballot but because of an ignorance in the rules. Hence, they disadvantage themselves with their selection.

ynwa9
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Re: Re:

Post by ynwa9 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:52 am

floppy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:51 am
anxious.dad wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:37 am

I have problem comprehending the posting procedure. With the S1 posting, the students are ranked, the computer processed the choices of each student in sequence as I understand that there will not be many students with the exact same tscore. For JAE, using the scenario above, how can the computer fulfill the choices of all nett 7 pointers? As they are considered equal, who should be given a spot first? In the flowchart below (extracted from pg 15 of the JAE booklet), "1st Choice" is mentioned in the 1st decision making cell. Since all nett 7 pointers are considered equal, does the computer post the 7 pointers to their 1st choice course provided they met the course requirement before processing the second choice of the students? The computer ballot is meant for the Last Vacancy likely to be among Singapore citizens with the same gross aggregate score.

Image
Ok. I understand the confusion now :lol:

You have to refer to the start of the flow - Consider all applicants in order of merit.

The choices apply if you don’t hit a snag. When there’s a snag, you need to differentiate them. While all net 7 pointers are considered equal, some are more equal than others. That’s where comparison of the various 7 sub-classes appear: citizenship, followed by raw 7, 8-1, 9-2, 10-3 and lastly 11-4. Choice order does NOT feature or matter in the comparison.

Like S1 posting, what this means is students have to be aware of the various tie-breaking rules. If you are net 7 pointer but non-SC, you are not favored to (and probably won’t) get into a school with COP 7. Likewise, if you are a 11-4, you might want to consider a school with COP 8 to max your chances instead. If you think a 11-4 is maximizing his chance by having the COP 7 choice school as his first choice, think again!

While there may be a lot of net 7 points, once you work though the various tie breakers and courses/ selections, the numbers left are often not that big in each sub-classes (still more than t-score not much lesser than a unfiltered net 7). Usually, people are posted to their lower choices not because of ballot but because of an ignorance in the rules. Hence, they disadvantage themselves with their selection.
This echoes my thoughts. There is zero mention of choice order as a tie breaker in the JAE booklet. It's just that I hear people saying otherwise. IF choice order did indeed matter, no one would take the risk of applying for JCs with say a cut off point that is slightly lower (more difficult) than the student's net L1R5


phtthp
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Re:

Post by phtthp » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:24 am

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Last edited by phtthp on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

phtthp
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Re:

Post by phtthp » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:24 am

ynwa9 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:38 pm
It is very clearly stated in the JAE admission booklet that the admission criteria are net L1R5, citizenship, gross L1R5. If still tied, it says that there will be a computerized ballot with EQUAL CHANCE given to candidates. No where does it mention that the order in which the JC was selected matter. So it means that if two students have identical nett and gross scores apply and both are citizens, it theoretically should not matter if the student put the JC as 1st choice or 3rd choice? Can someone shed some light on this because I keep hearing people say that that is not the case and that the student who put the JC as 1st choice would be given priority.
may refer to MOE reply here

https://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/foru ... start=1210

Parent
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Re: Networking Group - JCs General

Post by Parent » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:53 am

For JAE application, can a student list the same JC for both Science and Arts streams?

For example,

XXX JC Science First Choice
xxx JC Arts Second Choice

John Lim
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Re: Networking Group - JCs General

Post by John Lim » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:56 pm

Parent wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:53 am
For JAE application, can a student list the same JC for both Science and Arts streams?

For example,

XXX JC Science First Choice
xxx JC Arts Second Choice
yes

John Lim
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Re: Networking Group - JCs General

Post by John Lim » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 pm

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Last edited by John Lim on Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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