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Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:29 pm
by iRabbit
doodbug wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:18 pm
Interesting. If you don't mind sharing, what did your DS eventually pursue in university?

Econ. My kid has a few offers from local and overseas uni to read this subject. He was never interested in the more popular courses such as med, law nor comp sci and only settled on econ during NS, for now (he has another chance to change his mind next year).

doodbug wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:18 pm
It's also good that as parents you did not insist that the kid continues to build on his 'MO competitive advantage', and to allow him to pursue other interests.

I think MO at higher levels can be very dry, and I don't blame him for ditching it towards the end. I remember those times when I had to send him to NUS/NUSH for those external training sessions and wondered what were they all about coz he was never at the top end of the class and they only choose the top few for overseas competitions. Anyway, I think the time spent in MO aided him in his H3 Math paper later on, so I would say it was still beneficial.

doodbug wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:18 pm
Remind me of how we had this impression that kids should take triple science in upper sec to have good exposure to STEM and to make choices on which STEM fields to go into - both my kids did and in spite of decent science results, promptly decided STEM is not for them! :rotflmao:

Mine was pretty decent in STEM subjects too, all the way to Y6. And then he tells us, "I'm not interested in engineering nor computing in uni."

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am
by lucid
I applaud all of you parents who have enabled pathways for your children. This is why we have threads like this - for prospective DSA hopefuls to learn and for the experienced ones to share. These are success stories for our children to have possibilities opened up so I am thankful for the DSA pathway. Also, the key takeaway is to give the child autonomy and free choice ,despite helping them uncover possibilities. :lovesite:

In our case ( as with most success cases in NUSH), having been through the entire journey - this NUSH child was adamant he wanted to pursue only STEM. Forgo IB school (affiliate school) interview after the admissions test as it clashed with NUSH DSA camp day, chose NUSH over R (parent and grandparents alumni). Chinese too chiu to thrive in HC ( to disappointment of the other alumni parent and another HJC grandparent).

After arriving in the school, he found that humanes was as interesting and developed interest in literary works ( influenced from STEM classmates who read copiously). There is a resident poet teacher in the school too - go check the threads on the school. It is not all STEM as the children can pursue the humanes or music (Yong Siew Toh conservatory) to the highest levels at Uni level if they choose. Econs honours can be read at NUS for the 1XX-2xx series modules; they take the same tutorials and exams as the undergrads are marked agst their curve. Most do well as otherwise, they will not get back the extra fees charged by the uni. Motto of school is to Experiment, Explore and Excel. It applies to their entire culture and way of approaching life.

Out of Math, a number will embark on the Science/Informatics Olympiads with the free electives and reach National Golds and even national training team for International. Up until 1-2 yrs ago, R did not even offer CS as a core subject at As so it was doubly punishing to be pursuing CS and still having to clear your As with PCME combo.

MO at high level is not for everyone. By Y3-4, it would be clear who is cut out for it as very often, the students were taught WRONG as lower primary levels. The questions are meant for the alternate thinker who can find the most elegant solutions.

Also, the pursuit of research to the highest levels enabled many of them to have opportunities for multi projects at DSO/unis/ASTAR/hospitals/etc. Some went to professional internal congresses to present, a few interned at Ivy League labs and a number are published - see the convocation books for achievements of graduating classes . All were incidental achievements as most just followed their heart and passion in a school that fully enabled the opportunities and resources. If they propose a project, the school has the means to reach out to their partners and affiliates to find an external mentor who has been specialising in the research.

What you have when you match Passion and Discipline with Opportunities and Resources will be excellent and robust experiences - some call it “stacked portfolios”. Others thrive in leadership because the school , while small, has so many CCAs and interest groups that leadership opportunities are abundant. The culture too is self-leadership and to take charge of your own choices and care for your peers around you.

It is a bit too premature at PSLE but I do invite forward thinking parents to project 6 years on. What is the end goal here ? DSA in a good name school or exploring the best educational pathway for your child to stay engaged and happy? And then qualify for a stress free journey into university ?

Having been through the journey, the students end with amazing portfolios and "supra-curriculars" like university modules etc that stand out at university and scholarship admissions. I dare say a large percentage going to local Uni will be on faculty or Uni scholarship and get early acceptances. This will apply across to STEMM courses including CS, pre-med. 30-40% will go on to non-Stem like Econs, Law, Geography etc.
Something to note for forward thinking applicants to Ivy and Oxbridge and other foreign selectives is the timeline of applications at the end of each year - the Singapore A level and IB system puts pressure given most will be chasing prelims and the final national exams. Meanwhile, NUSH ends lessons ard Oct and the students then hv the bandwidth to DREAM, THINK, REFLECT on their university and career pathways. I always find it a shame that the A level kids have to choose their pathway or courses they are eligible for within weeks of results release. More often than not, they pick the best courses they can qualify for - and not what they will thrive in. Why are there so many disengaged adults in our workforce here ?

Meanwhile, grades are cumulative in NUSH, the student will be fully aware of what they need to do to get to the courses /unis they want , if they fall short, they are backed up by good portfolios to make an exceptional application. One hidden gem is the counsellor team in the school. The low student ratio makes it possible for those who seek them out to get the best and tailored advice. If you check with the big mainstream elites, you will find the students lamenting that they have to pay external consultants unless you are in the top 5% of the school( 50-60 out of 1200 per cohort).

The free access to opportunities where everyone is equal is the value add from NUSH. The hardest will be to make in into the school at 12 yrs old. The child is free to explore various pathways to the highest levels but the caveat is that he/she must have the natural aptitude for math and science to thrive in the core curriculum.

I also understand that at 11-12 yrs, not all will have a firm inclination. Thus, our role as parents is to uncover and research on possibilities. Do not place the child in NUSH if they do not like math AND science.

A lot is discussed about the wows of elite mainstream but many are only aware the realities after the entire journey too. Recognise too R has become a “kinder” place. We come from a family where the first and second generation of nieces and nephews hail from R , HC ,SOTA and NUSH - all successful in Oxbridge, Ivy , pre-med, Law, NTU Nanyang , NUS Global Merit, PSC scholarships. We recognise the pros and cons of each to bring out the best in each child. Every school is a good school - only if the culture and opportunities match. Our job as parents is then to help the child do the necessary due diligence. Had we been adamant too child only go to our known alumni and join the well known brand , I dare say it would have been a disservice to his potential.

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:27 am
by doodbug
I have to say that many NUSH parents with kids in NUSH and non-NUSH have come to the same conclusion regarding the merits of not needing to take A levels or IB. It helps a lot as students can concentrate on university applications and the various tests (BMAT, TMUA, UCAT, LNAT, SATs etc) to excel in them. The NUSH Diploma (thanks to the NUS name) is highly recognized by top universities globally and within Singapore. And because NUSH kids have the time and space through the 6 years to build up a very credible portfolio comprising APs (which are highly recognized) and international prizes, applications to top universities and programmes are well-received. The student-staff ratio at NUSH is very favourable and NUSH is well-resourced on a per student basis.

The NUSH experience however, will not have certain 'intangible' aspects the way the top mainstream schools have, like illustrious alumni and donors, school spirit and cheering in full force at National Games etc. The school is after all, quite a young school.

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:47 am
by lucid
doodbug wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:27 am
I have to say that many NUSH parents with kids in NUSH and non-NUSH have come to the same conclusion regarding the merits of not needing to take A levels or IB. It helps a lot as students can concentrate on university applications and the various tests (BMAT, TMUA, UCAT, LNAT, SATs etc) to excel in them. The NUSH Diploma (thanks to the NUS name) is highly recognized by top universities globally and within Singapore. And because NUSH kids have the time and space through the 6 years to build up a very credible portfolio comprising APs (which are highly recognized) and international prizes, applications to top universities and programmes are well-received. The student-staff ratio at NUSH is very favourable and NUSH is well-resourced on a per student basis.

The NUSH experience however, will not have certain 'intangible' aspects the way the top mainstream schools have, like illustrious alumni and donors, school spirit and cheering in full force at National Games etc. The school is after all, quite a young school.
Yes- very apt ! The loud cheering at full
Force ! It extends to army too - the recruits who shout the loudest deafening the rest of the section more likely to be the leadership from R. Naturally, they are gunning for OCS and all the scholarships 💪🏻

Not so young school anymore but definite not as illustrious heritage as the old stalwarts. ( like early MIT vs Harvard) It is often the early adopters that reap the best benefits - since they took the biggest risk. I like what another parent said-
join the maddening crowd on tried and tested formulae or embark and innovate up a path less travelled? Who will stand out more - the cookie cutter perfect or the exceptional snowflake ?
A few cohorts ago, there was a SOTA visual art student so good in Science that he/she ended with offers from MIT and Ivy. There was something different offered up to the table unlike the usual cookie cutters and I think the student went on to pursue Infocomm and Philosophy in US, now with a hedge fund.
While it was a unique case, it stood out that it was definitely easier to see the Unique Selling Point. I guess it works too if you are able to differentiate yourself from the crowd as you go about in life.

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:15 pm
by CoffeeCat
gigilam wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:42 pm
Hi…
As moe change new rule which no more streams as express , normal and NE…
I wonder does it mean DSA aim for normal neighbourhoods schools also useless?
Under old stream system… as long as you get in via DSA no matter to which school as least is under express…
Now under new system does it mean if not aim for popular school or IP … no point go using DSA for normal school as there will not be confirmation under express?
I get what you mean, certainly DSA for the popular/IP schools would be more popular since allows alternative route into the entry other than PSLE results that meets the school's COP.
But there's still merits for DSA to neighbourhood schools, for example if some family/child would like to pick a certain neighbourhood school or the child already had a strong interest in a cca, gaining that DSA usually allows benefits like accelerated route or higher chance to become part of the exco committee in upper secondary.
For example afaik ACS Barker robotics club sec1 DSAs get to train with the sec2s, on a different path from the other sec1 robotics.

Re: DSA 2024 _ English & Humanities

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:47 pm
by ctct2021
Hi, anyone can share your child's experience (process) for english DSA at RI/ Hwa Chong/ ACSI in 2023?

Thank you!

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:39 pm
by usaik881
lucid wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:47 am
Yes- very apt ! The loud cheering at full
Force ! It extends to army too - the recruits who shout the loudest deafening the rest of the section more likely to be the leadership from R. Naturally, they are gunning for OCS and all the scholarships 💪🏻

Not so young school anymore but definite not as illustrious heritage as the old stalwarts. ( like early MIT vs Harvard) It is often the early adopters that reap the best benefits - since they took the biggest risk. I like what another parent said-
join the maddening crowd on tried and tested formulae or embark and innovate up a path less travelled? Who will stand out more - the cookie cutter perfect or the exceptional snowflake ?
A few cohorts ago, there was a SOTA visual art student so good in Science that he/she ended with offers from MIT and Ivy. There was something different offered up to the table unlike the usual cookie cutters and I think the student went on to pursue Infocomm and Philosophy in US, now with a hedge fund.
While it was a unique case, it stood out that it was definitely easier to see the Unique Selling Point. I guess it works too if you are able to differentiate yourself from the crowd as you go about in life.

We write to clarify a few points.

The terminal point of SOTA is the International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma.

The IB is a common exam like the GCE A Level.


THEREFORE,

The "SOTA visual art student" who "ended with offers from MIT and Ivy" did so via the IB Diploma. Is getting such offers via the IB Diploma any different from "the usual cookie cutters"? And, what is so unusual about this student who "went on to pursue Infocomm and Philosophy in US, now with a hedge fund"? Is what he/she has done any different from "the usual cookie cutters"?


GRANTED,

If ever it exists, this contrived argument called the "Unique Selling Point" about this student, is that he/she wrote the IB at SOTA and not at, e.g., ACS (I).


NOW,

An institution that sets exams and marks them at its own marks curves cannot be the same as another that offers the IB or the GCE A Level. The said institution, as far as educational value-add is concerned, is an unknown, a question mark. Objectively, if and only if its students take the IB and 1 in 2 scores 40 points or more, then and only then, this institution is to be reckoned with. Otherwise, not. Objectively, if and only if its students take the GCE A Level and 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 scores 90 points, then and only then, this institution is to be reckoned with. Otherwise, not.


We ask an objective question that can be answered objectively, sans emotion.

Who will stand out more in the eyes of any man/woman in the street, the student who takes the IB (and scores 45 points) or the student who takes the GCE A Level (and scores 90 points) or the student who takes a non common exam (who scores high distinction) which is set and marked at non common marks curves?


We conclude.

Cookie cutter or non cookie cutter, as long as we are happy about it, it suffices. If we want to talk about "who will stand out more", then, we need to be objective.

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 12:21 am
by lucid
Exactly that. Well said

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 11:57 am
by CoffeeCat
lucid wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:16 am
...
After arriving in the school, he found that humanes was as interesting and developed interest in literary works ( influenced from STEM classmates who read copiously). There is a resident poet teacher in the school too - go check the threads on the school. It is not all STEM as the children can pursue the humanes or music (Yong Siew Toh conservatory) to the highest levels at Uni level if they choose. Econs honours can be read at NUS for the 1XX-2xx series modules; they take the same tutorials and exams as the undergrads are marked agst their curve. Most do well as otherwise, they will not get back the extra fees charged by the uni. Motto of school is to Experiment, Explore and Excel. It applies to their entire culture and way of approaching life.

Out of Math, a number will embark on the Science/Informatics Olympiads with the free electives and reach National Golds and even national training team for International. Up until 1-2 yrs ago, R did not even offer CS as a core subject at As so it was doubly punishing to be pursuing CS and still having to clear your As with PCME combo.

MO at high level is not for everyone. By Y3-4, it would be clear who is cut out for it as very often, the students were taught WRONG as lower primary levels. The questions are meant for the alternate thinker who can find the most elegant solutions.
...
Nice sharing that even NUSH students could pursue interests and excel in humanities despite the school's original niche expertise on maths and science. I got the same takeaway when I watched their e-open house [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFzs_zq ... ncvAzwAt2r][/youtube].

By the way could you elaborate on why or how you think some of the students were taught wrong at lower primary levels?

Re: DSA 2024

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 1:19 pm
by bbbay
Have compiled list of DSA domains added/dropped in 2024:

https://sg-parent.github.io/kiasuparent/

They are compiled from official source. Do validate their accuracy if you are using them to make decision.


I have also updated an online workbook for ease of shortlisting DSA by common selection criteria. view this workbook from computer. it may not display in full when viewed from mobile device:

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/ ... DSA/Search