Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP program

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Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP program

Postby Hotspurs68 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:32 pm

Dear parents,

Are you happy with the programme so far? What are the strengths of the programme?

How many students have gone to Harvard, Princeton, STanford, Cambridge?

Please advise.

Regards :D

Hotspurs68
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Postby autolycus » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:10 am

Good news or bad news first? :)

OK...

Weaknesses: Structure is complex so teachers find it hard to cope, many ad hoc fixes, inconsistent delivery, actual curriculum does not match advertised curriculum, school internal evaluation is uneven.

Strengths: Structure is complex hence brings out inherent flexibility and creativity of young people, pulls them into a network which offers vast range of future opportunities, school culture is highly positive in terms of self-esteem and social factors.

Results: As expected for top 10% or better cohort from Singapore; strong in Mathematics, Sciences, Business/Mgt compared to similar intakes elsewhere, weaker in humanities subjects. Excellent in CL2 because the IB CL2 is a genuine second-language and not the sub-first that SG-Camb offers.

Outcomes: Graduates are underrepresented in local awards but there are many in Oxbridge and Ivy League universities, as well as solid other 1st-tier and 2nd-tier universities. Note that ACS(I) does not do university placement; your kid will have to work it out. In fact, it seems to be the ACS(I) way — pose severe challenge, let kids work it out without much safety net.

Much later in life, ACSians suddenly blossom and may become Minister of Education (see Lim Kim San, Goh Keng Swee, Tharman S, Ng Eng Hen) or Minister of Finance (see Lim Kim San, Goh Keng Swee, Richard Hu, Tharman S), thus gaining revenge over education system. The Raffles/Hwa Chong dominance in scholarships and civil service pretty much disappears somewhere around that level. Same for most other professions too.

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Re: Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP progr

Postby DadOfGirl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:35 am

Hotspurs68 wrote:Dear parents,

Are you happy with the programme so far? What are the strengths of the programme?

How many students have gone to Harvard, Princeton, STanford, Cambridge?

Please advise.

Regards :D



I guess IP program still take A - Level exams. Any comparision as to how students from O-level - to- A level fare compare to IP program?

Of course , this should be after taking out the factors like Intake Quality. So i guess what i am asking is Same PSLE score students faring at O-level-Alevel . compared to IP program

Any analysis available?

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Re: Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP progr

Postby autolycus » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:21 am

DadOfGirl wrote:
Hotspurs68 wrote:Dear parents,

Are you happy with the programme so far? What are the strengths of the programme?

How many students have gone to Harvard, Princeton, STanford, Cambridge?

Please advise.

Regards :D



I guess IP program still take A - Level exams. Any comparision as to how students from O-level - to- A level fare compare to IP program?

Of course , this should be after taking out the factors like Intake Quality. So i guess what i am asking is Same PSLE score students faring at O-level-Alevel . compared to IP program

Any analysis available?

Actually, the ACS(I) IP is unusual in that the students DON'T do A-levels. They do the International Baccalaureate Diploma instead. There is no basis for comparison because at the moment ACS(I) is the largest IB school in the world and the only one with such a selective mass intake.

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Re: Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP progr

Postby DadOfGirl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:50 am

autolycus wrote:
DadOfGirl wrote:
Hotspurs68 wrote:Dear parents,

Are you happy with the programme so far? What are the strengths of the programme?

How many students have gone to Harvard, Princeton, STanford, Cambridge?

Please advise.

Regards :D



I guess IP program still take A - Level exams. Any comparision as to how students from O-level - to- A level fare compare to IP program?

Of course , this should be after taking out the factors like Intake Quality. So i guess what i am asking is Same PSLE score students faring at O-level-Alevel . compared to IP program

Any analysis available?

Actually, the ACS(I) IP is unusual in that the students DON'T do A-levels. They do the International Baccalaureate Diploma instead. There is no basis for comparison because at the moment ACS(I) is the largest IB school in the world and the only one with such a selective mass intake.


So it is IB program not an IP program at ACS(I)... then cannot compare!

Rest of the Local - IP program must be taking A-levels directly. So how does students fare against O-Level to A-level with similar entry level score of PSLE!

i.e student chooses to go O-Lvel -A level route with score of 265 (PSLE) against student chosing IP. This is apple to apple comparision , if available any?

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Re: Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP progr

Postby autolycus » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 pm

DadOfGirl wrote:So it is IB program not an IP program at ACS(I)... then cannot compare!

Rest of the Local - IP program must be taking A-levels directly. So how does students fare against O-Level to A-level with similar entry level score of PSLE!

i.e student chooses to go O-Lvel -A level route with score of 265 (PSLE) against student chosing IP. This is apple to apple comparision , if available any?

ACS(I) runs a true IP. IP stands for Integrated Programme. In any IP, the students don't do O-levels but proceed directly to pre-university courses (A-levels or IB Diploma) after Sec 4. The time spent not studying for an extra exam that they don't need is used for a broader and more interesting curriculum (as intended).

The problem with comparisons is that by taking such a different course of study without O-levels, the gamble is that you are creating a completely different kind of student. Since the intention is not to create apples at all, you cannot compare apples with apples here.

On paper, high O-level achievers do marginally better at A-levels than IP students. But this may be due to the fact that a) they are selected into places like HCI and RI at JC level very competitively (since they don't get automatically get promoted like most IP students), and b) they have more experience being exam-smart.

Since the first batch of Sec3 students to skip O-levels was only launched in 2004 (at ACS(I), RI/RGS and HCI), we still don't know the long-term effects. In universities, they seem to be doing well currently. We do not know how they would have done without the IP, of course.

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Re: Parents of students ACS(I) - R U Happy with the IP progr

Postby DadOfGirl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:52 pm

autolycus wrote:
DadOfGirl wrote:So it is IB program not an IP program at ACS(I)... then cannot compare!

Rest of the Local - IP program must be taking A-levels directly. So how does students fare against O-Level to A-level with similar entry level score of PSLE!

i.e student chooses to go O-Lvel -A level route with score of 265 (PSLE) against student chosing IP. This is apple to apple comparision , if available any?

ACS(I) runs a true IP. IP stands for Integrated Programme. Since the intention is not to create apples at all, you cannot compare apples with apples here.
.


I kind of understand that students from IP program will be very different & no 'Apples' , but they do appear for A-levels along with bunch of others from O-level-->JC route. They are giving same examination, then there should be comprehensive comparative analysis somewhere!

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Postby INNOVATE » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:12 pm

DadOfGirl

So far, there's no detailed analysis provided apart from a statement released several months ago stated that the performance btw those on IP route vs 0-level path is similar.

My personal take is that it depends on several variables whether a pupil should embark on IP vs 0-level route. While many IP students excel in A-level, a smaller group shows complacency and are outplaced by O-level high achievers. Just take a look at the honour list of PSC President scholarship and SAF Overseas Scholarship lately, you will have the answer.

My opinion is that it depends on the aptitude and learning style of each student.

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Postby DadOfGirl » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:14 pm

INNOVATE wrote:DadOfGirl

So far, there's no detailed analysis provided apart from a statement released several months ago stated that the performance btw those on IP route vs 0-level path is similar.

My personal take is that it depends on several variables whether a pupil should embark on IP vs 0-level route. While many IP students excel in A-level, a smaller group shows complacency and are outplaced by O-level high achievers. Just take a look at the honour list of PSC President scholarship and SAF Overseas Scholarship lately, you will have the answer.

My opinion is that it depends on the aptitude and learning style of each student.


Point noted . Thank you. O-leveler are not fallign behind .. That's how it should be. We should not create too many class & Elitist!

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Postby autolycus » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:08 am

DadOfGirl wrote:
INNOVATE wrote:DadOfGirl

So far, there's no detailed analysis provided apart from a statement released several months ago stated that the performance btw those on IP route vs 0-level path is similar.

My personal take is that it depends on several variables whether a pupil should embark on IP vs 0-level route. While many IP students excel in A-level, a smaller group shows complacency and are outplaced by O-level high achievers. Just take a look at the honour list of PSC President scholarship and SAF Overseas Scholarship lately, you will have the answer.

My opinion is that it depends on the aptitude and learning style of each student.


Point noted . Thank you. O-leveler are not fallign behind .. That's how it should be. We should not create too many class & Elitist!

Of course at ACS(I) there is a third factor: most of the O-level intake to the IB (year 5 and 6) diploma programme is female. At that age, girls tend to be better at finding out how to catch up, catching up, and even excelling. Every batch has had girls who didn't go through the IP getting maximum points for the IBDP.

And yes, the point is not to make elites, but to make variety. :)

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