IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

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IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby FanFanX » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:22 pm

Hi,

After reading today's Straits Times article, "Tuition boom as kids prep for Integrated Programme", I feel that the Ministry of Education (MOE) has not been transparent in certain aspects.

Another area that I feel MOE has not been transparent is the number of IP failures. I don't think there is any figure given by MOE on the number who have entered IP at Sec 1 and dropped out along the way or who have not done well at A levels (not done well = not accepted by the local universities).

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby jtoh » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:37 pm

What have you gathered from the article that the MOE has not been transparent in?

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby FanFanX » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:07 pm

jtoh wrote:What have you gathered from the article that the MOE has not been transparent in?


There is this part of the article which mentioned that MOE did not give figures on the number of places given to non-IP students in top JCs:

"With the IP already running in several top JCs, they feel that students who do the O levels elsewhere will find it harder to get in because most of the places would go to the colleges' IP students.

The Ministry of Education (MOE) has given repeated assurances that these JCs are offering just as many places as before to those coming in via the O-level route.

But in the absence of hard numbers from the schools, parents have resorted to doing their own checks, and cite figures to explain why they worry."

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby twilight » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:48 pm

RI or HCI has told us during JC talks that before the IP system was in place, JC1 intake was 250. Now, JC1 intake from O level route is still 250. I have no idea how true this is though.

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby MummyThreeStreams » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:19 am

FanFanX wrote:
jtoh wrote:What have you gathered from the article that the MOE has not been transparent in?


There is this part of the article which mentioned that MOE did not give figures on the number of places given to non-IP students in top JCs:

"With the IP already running in several top JCs, they feel that students who do the O levels elsewhere will find it harder to get in because most of the places would go to the colleges' IP students.

The Ministry of Education (MOE) has given repeated assurances that these JCs are offering just as many places as before to those coming in via the O-level route.

But in the absence of hard numbers from the schools, parents have resorted to doing their own checks, and cite figures to explain why they worry."


I'm not that familiar with the issues, but is the figure that critical? Coz I think a good number of the IP students who get a place in the JC by virtue of the IP track would've made it into those JCs anyway right? So the actual number of places now available for O level students is not really relevant. What is really of interest is the number places going to those who might not have made it to the JCs without the IP. But these figures will be speculative.

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby Nebbermind » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:53 pm

MummyThreeStreams wrote: I'm not that familiar with the issues, but is the figure that critical? Coz I think a good number of the IP students who get a place in the JC by virtue of the IP track would've made it into those JCs anyway right? So the actual number of places now available for O level students is not really relevant. What is really of interest is the number places going to those who might not have made it to the JCs without the IP. But these figures will be speculative.


Think alot of S'poreans r just obsessed with numbers! :wink:

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby phtthp » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:21 pm

it appears to be like -

if parents worry that after O level due to insufficient places or find it harder to enter good JC, it is safer for children to take the Sec 1 IP track first instead of O level track, & hope that child can cope. if really can't cope after try his best then no choice - switch back to O level track, half way through.

if like that, as time pass over the years, IP programme will get more & more popular, compared to O level.

how about the other way round ? is it very hard for O level track to join IP programme at Sec 3 ? must need what kind of high score then can switch over ? every Sec school different (not standardized) ?

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby jtoh » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:37 pm

phtthp wrote:it appears to be like -

if parents worry that after O level due to insufficient places or find it harder to enter good JC, it is safer for children to take the Sec 1 IP track first instead of O level track, & hope that child can cope. if really can't cope after try his best then no choice - switch back to O level track, half way through.

if like that, as time pass over the years, IP programme will get more & more popular, compared to O level.

how about the other way round ? is it very hard for O level track to join IP programme at Sec 3 ? must need what kind of high score then can switch over ? every Sec school different (not standardized) ?


Personally, I would prefer to go for IP only if I'm sure my kid will thrive in that environment. It would be disruptive and a blow to a kid's confidence if he has to leave halfway through for O levels because he can't make it in an IP school.

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby Edureach » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:01 pm

So many just think of nothing else but IP?

Here are the advantages of those who qualify for IP but choose 0-level route instead:

1. Increasingly, its easier to excel in 0-level due to decreasing no of high quality 0-level candiates especially in the nxt couple of yrs onwards.

2. Choice to opt to polys on scholarships if they can find a course that interest them and move on to unis from here. This will also position them well for the work place in future.

3. Opportunity to embark on a matriculation programme overseas in a good uni's preparation course vs- a-vs those on IP programme.

4. An excellent 0-level cert is well-recognised internationally whereas those who are unable to complete their IP hve nothing to show.

5. Even if unable to get a place in 1st tier jcs, still can proceed to top 2nd tier jcs as the latter also hve high proportion of students making it to local unis ie 85-90%.

A check with PSC and u will find there are a fair no of them winning OMS, SAFOS and even President scholarship. So opportunities abound, really doesn't matter whether studying in IP or non IP, RI/HCI.

Agreed with jtoh that parents must be sure that their kids can excel in IP before embarking upon it.

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Re: IP failures...has MOE been transparent?

Postby verykiasu2010 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:16 pm

twilight wrote:RI or HCI has told us during JC talks that before the IP system was in place, JC1 intake was 250. Now, JC1 intake from O level route is still 250. I have no idea how true this is though.


it is not rocket science

each year the A level output by RI and HCI is at least 1200

so from 250 to 1200 the increase is 950

that means the 950 were from sec 1 IP, plus the 250 intake from O level = 1200

what is not transparent ?
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