Controversies surrounding lower COPs for affiliation

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Controversies surrounding lower COPs for affiliation

Postby mommyNg » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:33 am

I just read an article by Alan John published in the Straits Times regarding the SJI debate about whether or not to lower COP for affiliated primary schools.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/S ... 07588.html

I am pretty intrigued by his insider's story, especially the part about

" it was heartbreaking to see the majority of the St Michael's boys in the bottom four classes (in SJI)" and

"loyalty can transform miraculously into pragmatism on PSLE Results Day. Many who swear they want their sons in SJI and nowhere else, behave quite differently the moment their boys qualify for Raffles Institution, Anglo-Chinese School (Independent) or Victoria School."

I felt that Alan's account is genuine and sincere. This starts me thinking...I have also struggled earlier (P1 registration) over the option of enrolling my dd in A - a pri school that has a much lower COP to an affiliated sec sch, or B - another school that has a higher COP to its' affiliated sec sch but propagate the same values that both my DH and I share. Should I enroll her to A just so that it won't be so stressful for both of us when PSLE is near? Is there value to working harder to achieve higher COP because you are "forced" to (e.g. no affiliation)? What do we want in an education for her? Would we regret that she couldn't get into a good sec sch (because we missed enrolling her into a pri sch with affiliation) even though she may have "good values"?

I have also heard stories about students with lower PSLE scores who got into a good sec sch based on affiliation struggling to meet the high academic standards of the school, especially with regards to 'O' levels. Perhaps that's one key reason why some good secondary schools are now talking about raising COP for affiliated schools (e.g. MGS, SCGS)?

For those mummies and daddies at KSP, what is your take? Any first-hand experiences?

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Postby JonC » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:54 am

Wah, from the main feeder junior school got 50% and other feeder school 25%.

Correct me if I read wrongly, does that mean 75% from feeder and 25% from outside?

If so, the parents from the feeder school should wakeup. 75% still want more? What a shame! What Chinese Language pull down PSLE grade. If you are born a Chinese, and no good in your Chinese Language, it is really a shame too.

The principal of my boy's primary school / my secondary school has told us parents that affiliation + good results from the primary only around 45% qualify (that does not mean all will choose to stay as some choose to go IP schools), I already think it is a lot. That means 55% or more from outside.

I think the principal and school management reserves the right to decide the right balance between continuously growing the school and take care of Alumni is really tricky. Because if the principal take in too many lower COP students, one fine day, the school will become just like any other neighbourhood school. Once this happens, good principal will go follow by good teachers will go too, it will be a spiral effect. I am sure by then, you will not be proud of your school anymore, right?

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Postby mommyNg » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:56 pm

I think it was the old boys who suggested that the main feeder school to get 50% of the vacancies while the other feeder school to get 25%, so that means 25% from outside. But I guessed it is about 33-40% of actual SJI sec one students are from St. Michael.

I agree with you JonC, that if the school takes in more students with lower COP, the school tends to lose out in competitiveness and perceived "value". The teachers will also face more challenges in teaching a (too) diverse group of students with varying abilities and attitudes. Finally, there could be a psychological impact (e.g. self-esteem) on these students who are surrounded by (much) better performers.[/i]

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Re: Controversies surrounding lower COPs for affiliation

Postby westmom » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:39 pm

mommyNg wrote:. Should I enroll her to A just so that it won't be so stressful for both of us when PSLE is near? Is there value to working harder to achieve higher COP because you are "forced" to (e.g. no affiliation)? What do we want in an education for her? Would we regret that she couldn't get into a good sec sch (because we missed enrolling her into a pri sch with affiliation) even though she may have "good values"?
For those mummies and daddies at KSP, what is your take? Any first-hand experiences?


There's no right answer cos every child is individual with their own personalities and attitude. Motivated ones will do well in whereever they are and if the school provide the right environment they will do even better. Unmotivated ones need more time. Also there are some who are "slower" in maturity and development in primary school and can suddenly thrive later on if they are in a good secondary school. I know of a friend who didn't do well in PSLE but because she was from an affiliated school, she was put in one of the bottom sec classes. As time went, she matured in her attitude and had a score of 6 or something in O levels. Who knows how she will turn out if she had not gone to a reputable sec school? When registrating for Primary 1, we can't tell what sort of learner our child will be yet, so you have to weigh the pros and cons carefully...

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Postby JonC » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:53 pm

I have classmates who didn't do well in Primary but did very well in Secondary too.

I also have classmates who did well in Primary but did "badly" in Secondary.

I also have classmates who did well in Secondary (straight A's) but flock JC and did not make it to local U.

I also have classmates who only start to do well only in the U.

But I can only say, the above mentioned classmates of mine are not the majority (within the bell curve).

If I remembered correctly, SJI entry COP from outside is around 240+ (not very high for famous schools), but not sure what is the affiliate entry COP. (Anyone?)

My boy's primary school / my secondary school entry COP from outside is around 250, the affiliation raised from 225 last year PSLE to 230 this year PSLE. So what do I do, gather all my "powerful" old boys gang to hang the principal or push my boy harder? I think the second is a better option. I think we are pampering our kids too much. We are already having 2m foreigners fighting for resource available with the local 3m people. They must learn how to fend for themselves as early as possible before they become losers in life.

Even if you have millions or billions, but your next generations are bums, it will part with them in no time.
Last edited by JonC on Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:14 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: Controversies surrounding lower COPs for affiliation

Postby mommyNg » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:01 pm

it could mean...

either "In the years that followed some did make the leap to the better Secondary 3 and 4 classes, but most stayed put in the bottom half all their years at SJI."

or

westmom wrote:she was put in one of the bottom sec classes. As time went, she matured in her attitude and had a score of 6 or something in O levels



westmom wrote:When registrating for Primary 1, we can't tell what sort of learner our child will be yet, so you have to weigh the pros and cons carefully...



Scary, isn't it??? :nailbite:

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Postby mrschan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:59 pm

My take is the differential COP for feeder and non-feeded should be calibrated carefully.

If I am not wrong for SJI, 238 for feeder and 241 for non-feeder. Just 3 miserable points! What is the perk for enrolling in the primary school then? I might as well put my child in a school which can push him to greater heights. If you are a Catholic,one of the attractiveness is a 10 year christian learning environment for your child. If the COP is pitched too high for feeder boys, then where is continuity of such education?

Maybe a 20-30 points difference would appease the old boys. Take MGS for ex. 220 vs 250 . Also it is not alarming for the bottom classes of affiliated sec schools to be filled with its feeder girls. Afterall, the "outsiders" meet the higher COP and deserve to be in the better classes.

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Postby JonC » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:40 pm

Wow, 220 vs 250 & 238 vs 241.

Everyone nowadays wants to send kids to IP if kids can make it.

Some of this famous school are also trying to IP, but main stumbling block is feeder / affiliate primary school.

The million $ question will be asked, "How can 220 go IP when my kids from non-feeder with 249 cannot?"

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Postby mathsparks » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:30 pm

My take on this? Both my kids didn't depend on affiliation points to get into the schools of their choice...coz those 2 schools have no affiliation. They know deep down that they've gotten in thru merit and not affiliation.

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Postby jedamum » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:52 am

RE: Controversies surrounding lower COPs for affiliation
my views (not sure if it is according to the article posted above):-
1) is it fair that those who got into the feeder primary school by religious-links or balloting have their 10yrs of education planning all nicely secured as they get to enjoy attractive affiliation benefits? (for those who said 238 is not as attractive if compared to 241, my view is that for PSLE, every 1 mark counts).
2) is it fair that those who are not in that particular religion, be admitted into the faith-based sec school on merit just cos it is deem prestigious?
3) in any case, parents who already have their kid in a feeder primary school, or is eyeing one, will surely be against the upward adjustment of COPS for affiliation and likewise, parents who have children in regular primary school or could not get their kids into a feeder primary school will lobby for an increase in COPs to make the playing field level on the basis of meritocracy (or simply won't give a hoot to this kind of discussion cos 'what will be, will be').

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