All About Affiliations between Pri & Sec Schools

Work your way through the complex rituals of Primary One Registration. This is where you find out more about the dream school you have always wanted for your kid.
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Aztac
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by Aztac » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:01 pm

actually is the trend nowadays for parents to choose or prefer pri schools which have affiliation to sec schools? The talk on the street seems to be always "you choosing XXX pri school? affiliated to any sec school or not? If not next time difficult" etc etc

zac's mum
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by zac's mum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:24 pm

Aztac wrote:actually is the trend nowadays for parents to choose or prefer pri schools which have affiliation to sec schools? The talk on the street seems to be always "you choosing XXX pri school? affiliated to any sec school or not? If not next time difficult" etc etc
Yes that is the trend among my mummy friends. But there are only 31 such primary schools to choose from.

floppy
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by floppy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:29 pm

Aztac wrote:actually is the trend nowadays for parents to choose or prefer pri schools which have affiliation to sec schools? The talk on the street seems to be always "you choosing XXX pri school? affiliated to any sec school or not? If not next time difficult" etc etc
That has always been the preference for a lot of people.
However, if you look at the data, the trend and the talk of the street isn't the same.
Most of the popular primary schools have no affiliation to any secondary schools, e.g. the 5 SHHK primary schools, RSS, HPPS, RMPS, etc.

Besides, with the new PSLE AL score and limited places for affiliation, the benefit of being affiliated isn't that great any more.

zac's mum
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by zac's mum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:10 pm

floppy wrote:
Aztac wrote:actually is the trend nowadays for parents to choose or prefer pri schools which have affiliation to sec schools? The talk on the street seems to be always "you choosing XXX pri school? affiliated to any sec school or not? If not next time difficult" etc etc
That has always been the preference for a lot of people.
However, if you look at the data, the trend and the talk of the street isn't the same.
Most of the popular primary schools have no affiliation to any secondary schools, e.g. the 5 SHHK primary schools, RSS, HPPS, RMPS, etc.

Besides, with the new PSLE AL score and limited places for affiliation, the benefit of being affiliated isn't that great any more.
“Education Minister (Schools) Ng Chee Meng announced in Parliament on Tuesday (March 7) that one-fifth of places in all secondary schools with affiliated primary schools are to be set aside for students who do not benefit from affiliation priority by 2019.”

20% to be reserved for students from non-feeders schools. That means 80% of places reserved for affiliated students. That is still a whopping majority. So affiliated primary school is still a big benefit what.

What I foresee will happen is the 20% seats are set aside for outsiders. Probably AL 4 pointers. If more applicants than 20% they will ballot.

Then the remaining 80% seats will go to the top scorers from the affiliated primary school who put the affiliated secondary as 1st choice. Maybe AL 4 pointers, all the way down to 5 or 6 pointers. Until the 80% seats are filled up.

So the ones who can’t get the seats are the lowest scorers from the affiliated primary. Ultimately, that is good because they still need to study hard, cannot be complacent anymore like previously ACS Barker took in all their affiliates first then admit outsiders.

floppy
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by floppy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:06 pm

zac's mum wrote: ...
20% to be reserved for students from non-feeders schools. That means 80% of places reserved for affiliated students. That is still a whopping majority. So affiliated primary school is still a big benefit what.

What I foresee will happen is the 20% seats are set aside for outsiders. Probably AL 4 pointers. If more applicants than 20% they will ballot.

Then the remaining 80% seats will go to the top scorers from the affiliated primary school who put the affiliated secondary as 1st choice. Maybe AL 4 pointers, all the way down to 5 or 6 pointers. Until the 80% seats are filled up.

So the ones who can’t get the seats are the lowest scorers from the affiliated primary. Ultimately, that is good because they still need to study hard, cannot be complacent anymore like previously ACS Barker took in all their affiliates first then admit outsiders.
I didn't say there's no benefit in being affiliated. I merely state that the benefit isn't that great any more.

PSLE AL band isn't equally distributed.
AL1 to 4 are very narrowly spread - difference of 5 marks.
AL 5 to 10 have a spread of between 10 to 20 marks.

For ACS (I), COP for affiliation is 235, and non-affiliation is 250. Translate that to the new PSLE scoring, the difference may be 3 points or less. I don't think 3 points or less is going to make much of a difference since there are plenty of options to choose from with that kind of results anyway (unless you die-die want ACS (I) ). P/S: AL 4 pointer will most likely end up in the IP schools like ACS (I) IB, which offers no bonus for affiliates.

Affiliation is really meant to benefit those at the lower end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the new ruling, schools that accept affiliation at a very low cutoff (ACS Barker being one example), the score becomes meaningless as once 80% is filled, the student at 81% won't be accepted even if he meets the COP. Worst still, as the band is wider at the tail end of the spectrum, a lot of weaker students are going to be bunched up together with similar PSLE score. Hence, some "better" students may lose out at the ballot and some "weaker" students may actually get in.

Given that competition isn't about hitting a minimum score (fixed target) but among peers as well (moving target), it will force them to study harder (like every other student). Affiliation is about having that safety net so that the student won't end up in a "less desired" secondary school. However, if the net is no longer safe, what's the purpose of affiliation? I believe the current spread of 188 (affiliate) vs 241 (non-affiliate) for ACS Barker will most likely narrow in the long run.
Last edited by floppy on Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.


Aztac
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by Aztac » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:21 pm

affiliation is of no effect to me because to get into a good secondary school depends on my kid's skill

To get into a good primary school depends on MY skills hahaha

zac's mum
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by zac's mum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:11 pm

floppy wrote:
zac's mum wrote: ...
20% to be reserved for students from non-feeders schools. That means 80% of places reserved for affiliated students. That is still a whopping majority. So affiliated primary school is still a big benefit what.

What I foresee will happen is the 20% seats are set aside for outsiders. Probably AL 4 pointers. If more applicants than 20% they will ballot.

Then the remaining 80% seats will go to the top scorers from the affiliated primary school who put the affiliated secondary as 1st choice. Maybe AL 4 pointers, all the way down to 5 or 6 pointers. Until the 80% seats are filled up.

So the ones who can’t get the seats are the lowest scorers from the affiliated primary. Ultimately, that is good because they still need to study hard, cannot be complacent anymore like previously ACS Barker took in all their affiliates first then admit outsiders.
I didn't say there's no benefit in being affiliated. I merely state that the benefit isn't that great any more.

PSLE AL band isn't equally distributed.
AL1 to 4 are very narrowly spread - difference of 5 marks.
AL 5 to 10 have a spread of between 10 to 20 marks.

For ACS (I), COP for affiliation is 235, and non-affiliation is 250. Translate that to the new PSLE scoring, the difference may be 3 points or less. I don't think 3 points or less is going to make much of a difference since there are plenty of options to choose from with that kind of results anyway (unless you die-die want ACS (I) ). P/S: AL 4 pointer will most likely end up in the IP schools like ACS (I) IB, which offers no bonus for affiliates.

Affiliation is really meant to benefit those at the lower end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the new ruling, schools that accept affiliation at a very low cutoff (ACS Barker being one example), the score becomes meaningless as once 80% is filled, the student at 81% won't be accepted even if he meets the COP. Worst still, as the band is wider at the tail end of the spectrum, a lot of weaker students are going to be bunched up together with similar PSLE score. Hence, some "better" students may lose out at the ballot and some "weaker" students may actually get in.

Given that competition isn't about hitting a minimum score (fixed target) but among peers as well (moving target), it will force them to study harder (like every other student). Affiliation is about having that safety net so that the student won't end up in a "less desired" secondary school. However, if the net is no longer safe, what's the purpose of affiliation? I believe the current spread of 188 (affiliate) vs 241 (non-affiliate) for ACS Barker will most likely narrow in the long run.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the COP is defined as the T score of the last student who made it in to the school? So it is not a fixed number. It will vary from year to year depending on the demand.

Translate that to the AL system combined with the 20/80 reservation system. We cannot yet extrapolate the T score directly into its equivalent AL score and say that will be the predicted COP. The only way we will know the new COPs is starting from 2019, when the 20/80 reservation system kicks in. I expect plenty of re-setting of COPs in several schools.

zac's mum
KiasuGrandMaster
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by zac's mum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:18 pm

Aztac wrote:affiliation is of no effect to me because to get into a good secondary school depends on my kid's skill

To get into a good primary school depends on MY skills hahaha
Then that’s fine. So you can just ignore all those people who are advising u, no problem. Majority of primary schools in SG have no affiliation anyway.

Aztac
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by Aztac » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:22 pm

zac's mum wrote:
Aztac wrote:affiliation is of no effect to me because to get into a good secondary school depends on my kid's skill

To get into a good primary school depends on MY skills hahaha
Then that’s fine. So you can just ignore all those people who are advising u, no problem. Majority of primary schools in SG have no affiliation anyway.

Yep, Thanks! My nail biting starts in 2021 for 2022 intake. Next year need to consider the PV routes as well. I wonder if its the children or the parents who are entering primary school haha :lol:

floppy
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Re: 2021 P1 Registration Exercise for 2022 In-take

Post by floppy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:40 pm

zac's mum wrote:
floppy wrote:
zac's mum wrote: ...
20% to be reserved for students from non-feeders schools. That means 80% of places reserved for affiliated students. That is still a whopping majority. So affiliated primary school is still a big benefit what.

What I foresee will happen is the 20% seats are set aside for outsiders. Probably AL 4 pointers. If more applicants than 20% they will ballot.

Then the remaining 80% seats will go to the top scorers from the affiliated primary school who put the affiliated secondary as 1st choice. Maybe AL 4 pointers, all the way down to 5 or 6 pointers. Until the 80% seats are filled up.

So the ones who can’t get the seats are the lowest scorers from the affiliated primary. Ultimately, that is good because they still need to study hard, cannot be complacent anymore like previously ACS Barker took in all their affiliates first then admit outsiders.
I didn't say there's no benefit in being affiliated. I merely state that the benefit isn't that great any more.

PSLE AL band isn't equally distributed.
AL1 to 4 are very narrowly spread - difference of 5 marks.
AL 5 to 10 have a spread of between 10 to 20 marks.

For ACS (I), COP for affiliation is 235, and non-affiliation is 250. Translate that to the new PSLE scoring, the difference may be 3 points or less. I don't think 3 points or less is going to make much of a difference since there are plenty of options to choose from with that kind of results anyway (unless you die-die want ACS (I) ). P/S: AL 4 pointer will most likely end up in the IP schools like ACS (I) IB, which offers no bonus for affiliates.

Affiliation is really meant to benefit those at the lower end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, with the new ruling, schools that accept affiliation at a very low cutoff (ACS Barker being one example), the score becomes meaningless as once 80% is filled, the student at 81% won't be accepted even if he meets the COP. Worst still, as the band is wider at the tail end of the spectrum, a lot of weaker students are going to be bunched up together with similar PSLE score. Hence, some "better" students may lose out at the ballot and some "weaker" students may actually get in.

Given that competition isn't about hitting a minimum score (fixed target) but among peers as well (moving target), it will force them to study harder (like every other student). Affiliation is about having that safety net so that the student won't end up in a "less desired" secondary school. However, if the net is no longer safe, what's the purpose of affiliation? I believe the current spread of 188 (affiliate) vs 241 (non-affiliate) for ACS Barker will most likely narrow in the long run.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the COP is defined as the T score of the last student who made it in to the school? So it is not a fixed number. It will vary from year to year depending on the demand.

Translate that to the AL system combined with the 20/80 reservation system. We cannot yet extrapolate the T score directly into its equivalent AL score and say that will be the predicted COP. The only way we will know the new COPs is starting from 2019, when the 20/80 reservation system kicks in. I expect plenty of re-setting of COPs in several schools.
Currently:
The COP for non-affiliate is based on the last student who made it into the school - this is a moving target.
The COP for affiliate is made known before PSLE commence - this is a fixed target.
Schools will accept affiliates who meet the COP first, before opening up the remaining places for non-affiliates.

In the new system:
Schools will accept affiliates up to 80%, before opening up the remaining places to non-affiliates.
The COP for non-affiliate remains a moving target since it's based on the last student of the 20% who made it into the school.
The COP for affiliate may become a moving target since it's based on the last student of the 80% who made it into the school (or the school chooses a high COP which will limit the number of affiliates meeting that score any way).

Re-setting of COP for affiliates is inconsequential for schools with high COP (since they are unlikely to accept close to 80% of their affiliates). For schools with low COP for affiliates, it is a big deal since there will no longer be a guaranteed safety net for the weakest students. The weakest students are the ones who will really benefit from the affiliation (and why parents prefer affiliation for the “just in case” scenarios), the stronger students have their pick of schools in any case.

Today, a 188 affiliated student is guaranteed a place in ACS Barker. Tomorrow, students scoring between 188 to 200 (which is likely to be in the same banding) are no longer guaranteed a place in ACS Barker. Removal of this safety net negates the big advantage of being in an affiliated school.

P/S: there are other schools in similar situation as ACS Barker.
Last edited by floppy on Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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