LEARNConcierge

Q&A - P4 English

Academic support for Primary 4

Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby D3@n » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Hi gem,

My suggestion is...
Mr Tan liked the painting, which was sold at a high price, very much.

Hope this helps!

D3@n
GreenBelt
GreenBelt
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:15 pm
Total Likes: 8


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Joy of Learning 111 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Main idea is about the painting so it should be subject. I would go for:

The painting which Mr Tan liked very much was sold at a high price.

Joy of Learning 111
BlueBelt
BlueBelt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Total Likes: 20


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Book Worm » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:16 pm

The explanation should not be that the subject is on the painting.
If I used this explanation for the first answer, D3@n would be correct as well.

The fact that Mr Tan liked the painting very much would be the 'cause' to buy it but it would be too expensive for him. It would give room for stating the fact that "the painting was sold at a high price. It would not make sense if one states that the painting was sold at a high price, and the fact should not be stated at all if you phrase it in the first example.

In this instance, answer by Joy of Learning is correct .

Book Worm
BrownBelt
BrownBelt
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:52 pm
Total Likes: 12


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Joy of Learning 111 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:29 pm

I am not sure I follow you, Book Worm. How do you know that Mr Tan cannot afford to buy the painting? How do you know that he would want to? Why is this relevant to determine how to combine the sentences, for the set sentences do not mention affordability or that Mr Tan was or was not the buyer?

When I teach students, including P4s, I keep S&T simple and strictly within the boundaries of the set question. The main skills examiners are looking for in synthesis are the students' ability to determine main and dependent clauses and what relationships connectors express.

Joy of Learning 111
BlueBelt
BlueBelt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Total Likes: 20


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Book Worm » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:53 pm

Hi Joy of Learning 111,
I am Book Worm's DD, Yr 1 student and my aim was to provide a more detailed and accurate answer as to how you have explained your answer. Though I am not a tutor, I wanted to apply my knowledge skills from GEP to explain the question more clearly to the reader.

I agree that I should not have jumped to conclusions and assumed that Mr Tan could not afford to buy the painting, or that he wanted to. However, If I applied your explanation to the first answer, wouldn't that answer be correct as well?

Technically, the painting is the subject of "which" and that would be accurate.

From my point of view, S&T requires the students to develop a skill set to rephrase a question. I believe that a proper and accurate explanation would allow students to fully understand why the answer was phrased in that manner. S&T should be developed not just within the boundaries, but also answer to logic. It would be wise if the students had the capacity to determine the main and dependent clauses, but one must also have the ability to link them to the connectors. I felt that your explanation was unable to clear up doubts and would leave readers with the wrong impression.

If the main rule of thumb to S&T is that the connector should link to the subject, wouldn't most answers be correct? :)

Book Worm
BrownBelt
BrownBelt
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:52 pm
Total Likes: 12
1 people like this post



Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby D3@n » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:31 pm

Often for S&T, there can be more than one possible answer.
I would think that both our syntax structures are sound.
There is still a cause for "which was sold at a high price" in my sentence structure as it provides additional information to specify which painting Mr Tan liked.

D3@n
GreenBelt
GreenBelt
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:15 pm
Total Likes: 8


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Joy of Learning 111 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:12 pm

I am Book Worm's DD

There is no harm in posting in your own right and stating that you are a student. Other forum members will give due allowance to your youthful inexperience and probably admire your gumption in making a contribution and trying to help others.

…my aim was to provide a more detailed and accurate answer as to how you have explained your answer.

Very kind of you. However, your answer was wrong.

If I applied your explanation to the first answer, wouldn't that answer be correct as well?

No. The first answer given by D3@n was:

Mr Tan liked the painting, which was sold at a high price, very much.

Here, Mr Tan is the subject of the sentence and painting is the object.

Technically, the painting is the subject of "which" and that would be accurate.

Technically, it is not. It is a relative pronoun relating the additional information about price to the noun painting.

From my point of view, S&T requires the students to develop a skill set to rephrase a question.

For synthesis, MOE is looking for the ability to combine sentences mindful of the relationships connectors express; and for transformation, the skill set mostly concerns manipulating word classes, direct to indirect speech and active to passive.

S&T should be developed not just within the boundaries, but also answer to logic.

Logic concerns validity in argumentation, not grammatical precision. If you replace ‘logic’ with ‘keeping to the original meaning’ then your assertion makes good sense.

I felt that your explanation was unable to clear up doubts and would leave readers with the wrong impression.

I am sure the readers would not be shy if they wished me to elaborate.

If the main rule of thumb to S&T is that the connector should link to the subject, wouldn't most answers be correct? :)

I did not say that. In the context of synthesis, I said that connectors express a relationship between clauses. I do not mind being corrected if and when I make a mistake, but I object to being misrepresented.

Joy of Learning 111
BlueBelt
BlueBelt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Total Likes: 20


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby jetsetter » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:19 pm

Joy of Learning 111 wrote:Main idea is about the painting so it should be subject. I would go for:
The painting which Mr Tan liked very much was sold at a high price.


Joy's version is preferred.

D3@n's version has shifted the emphasis to Mr Tan. That's not correct. The emphasis is "The painting".


Main[The painting was sold at a high price.] Subordinate[Mr Tan liked it very much.]

Pronoun "it" serves as an anaphoric link to the proper noun "The painting", so it hints to you 2nd sentence is subordinate to the 1st sentence.

2nd sentence gives you more info about that "painting", i.e. Mr Tan liked the painting very much.

"which" (relative pronoun/"connector") tells you you need to define/elaborate on some inanimate subject. The inanimate subject would be that "painting".

The additional info provided in 2nd sentence is to help you to define that "painting" in 1st sentence.


This is P4 S&T. No need to be so complicated.

jetsetter
KiasuGrandMaster
KiasuGrandMaster
 
Posts: 13936
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 pm
Total Likes: 224
1 people like this post


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby Joy of Learning 111 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:29 pm

Well expressed, jetsetter. Good explanation on 'which'.

Joy of Learning 111
BlueBelt
BlueBelt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:35 pm
Total Likes: 20


Re: Q&A - P4 English

Postby emgladys » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Need help here.

"Either of the twins___in this room just now. I'm sure of it," Sarah said.
1) is
2) was
3) are
4) were

My understanding is "Either" refers to one or the other...ie the verb should be singular-2) was. But in this case the subject is 'twins'.

Which answer is correct?? 2) was or 4) were

emgladys
YellowBelt
YellowBelt
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 6:25 pm
Total Likes: 0


PreviousNext

Return to Primary 4

LEARNConcierge