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GEP screening test? Go or no Go

Poll ended at Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:26 pm

Must Go
7
35%
Can Try
11
55%
Don't Go
2
10%
 
Total votes : 20

Postby ngbrdad » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:55 am

RGS seems to have very high success rate for round two .
In my DS1's time 2 years ago, Nan Hua had around 70 who made it to the second round but in the end only 10 made it to GEP, 5 each from the best 2 classes.

ngbrdad
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Postby Zann » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:13 am

verykiasu2010 wrote:those who train like mad just to be able to "make it" into GEP is likely to suffer and won't enjoy their studies


And those who train to get in will never know if their kids is truely gifted. They may loose confidence staying on subseqently. The GEP Maths is a different syllabus and tough. English is about sec 1/2 standard at P4. Social Studies is like studying History in Sec 1 or 2... and there are one after another project and portflio to do. So think twice before you send your kids for training.

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Postby wwcookie » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:26 am

Sorry, just sidetrack a bit..

I do know of some Mensan children who were not selected for the program. Why?? If they are Mensa members, they must be intellectually 'gifted', no? Isn't the GEP program catered for such children?

I feel the GEP selection process has some major flaws:

1. Everything hinges on the child's performance on the screening and selection test days.

2. Some intellectually 'gifted' children would have started underachieving by the time they sit for the test in P3, as they would have been subjected to 3 years of unchallenging lessons, esp so if they are not in the 'best' classes. Hence, they will not do well in the tests when MOE comes around to identify them.

3. By making the tests known, some kiasu parents will be tempted to prepare their children for the tests, and some of these children might actually get in, and suffer. And deprive some other children whom the program is really catered for, a place in the program.

wwcookie
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Postby jtoh » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:36 am

wwcookie wrote:Sorry, just sidetrack a bit..

I do know of some Mensan children who were not selected for the program. Why?? If they are Mensa members, they must be intellectually 'gifted', no? Isn't the GEP program catered for such children?

I feel the GEP selection process has some major flaws:

1. Everything hinges on the child's performance on the screening and selection test days.

2. Some intellectually 'gifted' children would have started underachieving by the time they sit for the test in P3, as they would have been subjected to 3 years of unchallenging lessons, esp so if they are not in the 'best' classes. Hence, they will not do well in the tests when MOE comes around to identify them.

3. By making the tests known, some kiasu parents will be tempted to prepare their children for the tests, and some of these children might actually get in, and suffer. And deprive some other children whom the program is really catered for, a place in the program.


Hi wwcookie.

I agree with you on points 2 & 3. I am definitely against the idea of prepping a child for GEP tests. But despite MOE's urging for parents not to prep their kids, and parents of current GEP students who warn against it, kiasu parents will continue to do so. A mentality of not wanting to lose out I suppose.

On point 2, I feel that parents of gifted children should also try to engage their children on their own and not be that reliant on MOE.

On point 1, yes, everything hinges on the dates of the tests, but that's also the case with other IQ tests and the Mensa test too.

As to why children who qualified for Mensa did not qualify for GEP, I can only speculate. One, of course, is that the GEP and Mensa tests test for different abilities. The GEP test is broader as it includes Math and English components in addition to the General Paper. Second, a child who qualifies for Mensa at age 4 may not qualify for it again at age 9 if tested again.

jtoh
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Postby jtoh » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:42 am

ngbrdad wrote:RGS seems to have very high success rate for round two .
In my DS1's time 2 years ago, Nan Hua had around 70 who made it to the second round but in the end only 10 made it to GEP, 5 each from the best 2 classes.


You mean RGPS. Yes, indeed if the number qualifying is 40-50 it is very high. IN previous years only about 20-30 qualified.

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Postby ksfaith » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:54 am

hi

someone ever tell me this , gifted can be trained, but you cant train a genuis.

ksfaith
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Postby wwcookie » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:26 pm

jtoh wrote:Hi wwcookie.

I agree with you on points 2 & 3. I am definitely against the idea of prepping a child for GEP tests. But despite MOE's urging for parents not to prep their kids, and parents of current GEP students who warn against it, kiasu parents will continue to do so. A mentality of not wanting to lose out I suppose.

On point 2, I feel that parents of gifted children should also try to engage their children on their own and not be that reliant on MOE.

On point 1, yes, everything hinges on the dates of the tests, but that's also the case with other IQ tests and the Mensa test too.

As to why children who qualified for Mensa did not qualify for GEP, I can only speculate. One, of course, is that the GEP and Mensa tests test for different abilities. The GEP test is broader as it includes Math and English components in addition to the General Paper. Second, a child who qualifies for Mensa at age 4 may not qualify for it again at age 9 if tested again.


Hi jtoh,

On point 1, yes all test results are based on the child's performance that day. But the purpose of the GEP test is to identify these children and put them into a program specially tailored for their needs. So whether the 'gifted' child gets a chance to go into a program that suits his learning needs for the next 3 years hinges SOLELY on his performance on the dates of the tests. This is mightily unfair cos if the child did not do well for whatever reasons on those dates, he will be 'left out' of the program which in the first place is designed with him in mind. Even if it's one case, the GEP department will have failed in its aim - to identify such children and cater to their needs. Maybe a better way of identifying such children is through identification by trained teachers in their classes, through observation and various discrete tests, in addition to the nationwide tests conducted at P3. Afterall, schools identify children with learning difficulties in the same way too - through teacher observation.

On point 2, yes parents have a responsibility to find enriching activities for their 'gifted' child. However, since the MOE aims to cater to the different learning needs of all children, why wait till P4 to cater to this group of children? Afterall, the schools don't wait till P4 to cater to children with learning difficulties - they start straightaway from P1 onwards if they are identified to be so. Same case should apply for the other end of the spectrum - 'gifted' kids are considered 'special needs' too. By waiting until they are P3 to identify them, some would have been underachieving by then as not all parents will have the resources or knowledge to fully engage them intellectually.

Yes, intelligence level do decrease if the brain is not stimulated properly to its full capacity. That's why a child's intelligence level at 4 may be higher than when he is next tested at 9 if he is not challenged intellectually in the years in between. That's why MOE should identify these children as early as possible and cater to their learning needs instead of waiting till P4. 'Giftedness' is inborn - they can be identified at very early ages. There is no need to wait till the child is 9 to see it manifest. However, 'giftedness' can be lost if the brain is not properly challenged. Therefore, for some of these children, it may be too late when MOE comes around to identify them at age 9 as they would have lost their 'giftedness' by then.

wwcookie
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Postby Rosie » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:29 pm

jtoh wrote:
ngbrdad wrote:RGS seems to have very high success rate for round two .
In my DS1's time 2 years ago, Nan Hua had around 70 who made it to the second round but in the end only 10 made it to GEP, 5 each from the best 2 classes.


You mean RGPS. Yes, indeed if the number qualifying is 40-50 it is very high. IN previous years only about 20-30 qualified.


Wow that's a very big jump. In 2008, there were only about 18 students from RGPS selected for the GE program.

Rosie
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Postby jtoh » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:40 pm

Rosie wrote:
jtoh wrote:
ngbrdad wrote:RGS seems to have very high success rate for round two .
In my DS1's time 2 years ago, Nan Hua had around 70 who made it to the second round but in the end only 10 made it to GEP, 5 each from the best 2 classes.


You mean RGPS. Yes, indeed if the number qualifying is 40-50 it is very high. IN previous years only about 20-30 qualified.


Wow that's a very big jump. In 2008, there were only about 18 students from RGPS selected for the GE program.


Yes, a very big jump. But I wonder if the number 40-50 is correct to begin with.

jtoh
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Postby Zann » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:27 am

wwcookie wrote:Sorry, just sidetrack a bit..

I do know of some Mensan children who were not selected for the program. Why?? If they are Mensa members, they must be intellectually 'gifted', no? Isn't the GEP program catered for such children?

.


Not surprise with that since the GEP selection include English component. English is indeed very demanding beside maths in this programme. I came across GEP kids who are gifted in language too. The kids could read read so much on their own at young age, such as the entire set of Harry Potter series by P3. The kids could just pick up new vocab and use them naturally without being taught and could hardly file a new vocab when reading our local newspaper. This happen to their learning of mother tough also. Their could just pick up a book and learn own their own.

Zann
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