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All About GEP

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GEP screening test? Go or no Go

Poll ended at Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:26 pm

Must Go
7
35%
Can Try
11
55%
Don't Go
2
10%
 
Total votes : 20

Re: All About GEP

Postby Pen88n » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:17 pm

jtoh wrote:
venus77 wrote:It should be
ACSP - 2
CHS - 2
HPPS - 1
Nan Hua - 2
Nanyang - 2
RGPS - 2
Rosyth - 2
St Hilda's - 1
TNS - 2

I heard is class size range from 25 - 30..


Down from my dd's time when NYPS had 4 and RGPS had 3 classes


That time, Rosyth and TNS should have 3 classes each, HPPS and St Hilda's 2 classes each (though the 2 classes usually not full).

Pen88n
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Re: All About GEP

Postby Desmo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts, analysis of the GEP..

Before the GEP briefing, we were 50-50 on letting our DS into the GEP (he of course is stubborn about staying on in his current school)

After the GEP briefing, we decided to let our DS stay in the mainstream school and not entering the GEP program.

Reason are several :
1) There are not many successful GEP cases showcased (apart from interviews of ex GEP students who are now in the profession of prosecutor and another one as director in trade ministry)
I can only assume they are still trying to collate enough successful cases to boost the GEP statistics

2) Q&A. Very interesting views brought up by existing GEP parents who voiced their grievances that their GEP kids are not 'assured' of a ticket to DSA/IP (despite spending lots of time in their studies). GEP kids also are not 'guaranteed' a place in the post-GEP Secondary school.
GEP panel replied by saying and stressing to the parents that GEP kids do not have privilege. They still have to compete with other mainstream kids on the path to DSA.

3) GEP Kids are only switched to mainstream curriculum after P6 term 2. (of course the GEP panel stressed that GEP program is 'enriched upon the mainstream curriculum') They believed the GEP kids should have ample time to 'adjust' themselves and be ready to sit for the PSLE.
I wonder why then the need to 'switch' if all along the GEP program is 'enriched' formula based on the mainstream syllabus.

4) Emotional state of the kid. This takes understanding of your own child when taking the decision to take the plunge into GEP pool for the next 2 years. For me, I understand my son is still not 'emotionally stable' in handling friendship ties, bonds. If I were to push him into the GEP pool, if he does not cope well and unable to handle the stress, falling grades, loss of friendship, I'm sure he'll be very miserable.

5) Perhaps the GEP panel should come up with the statistic of PSLE score for GEP kids. Afterall, at the end of the day, it's the PSLE score that will ensure a ticket to good secondary schools.

Hence, considering the above points, we've decided to let our DS to be a happy-go-lucky 9 year old kid enjoying and learning what a typical 9 year old kid learn in the mainstream, and not cramping him with skills/knowledge that are at least 2 years beyond him.
Maybe he can cope/maybe he cannot cope. But we'll worry about that when he is ready to learn these knowledge in secondary school.

For now, my DS is so happy that we respect his decision to stay on in his current school. He cannot wait to break the news to his friends/teachers :)

Desmo
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Re: All About GEP

Postby sean wife » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:48 pm

Desmo wrote:Thanks for sharing all your thoughts, analysis of the GEP..

Before the GEP briefing, we were 50-50 on letting our DS into the GEP (he of course is stubborn about staying on in his current school)

After the GEP briefing, we decided to let our DS stay in the mainstream school and not entering the GEP program.

Reason are several :
1) There are not many successful GEP cases showcased (apart from interviews of ex GEP students who are now in the profession of prosecutor and another one as director in trade ministry)
I can only assume they are still trying to collate enough successful cases to boost the GEP statistics

2) Q&A. Very interesting views brought up by existing GEP parents who voiced their grievances that their GEP kids are not 'assured' of a ticket to DSA/IP (despite spending lots of time in their studies). GEP kids also are not 'guaranteed' a place in the post-GEP Secondary school.
GEP panel replied by saying and stressing to the parents that GEP kids do not have privilege. They still have to compete with other mainstream kids on the path to DSA.

3) GEP Kids are only switched to mainstream curriculum after P6 term 2. (of course the GEP panel stressed that GEP program is 'enriched upon the mainstream curriculum') They believed the GEP kids should have ample time to 'adjust' themselves and be ready to sit for the PSLE.
I wonder why then the need to 'switch' if all along the GEP program is 'enriched' formula based on the mainstream syllabus.

4) Emotional state of the kid. This takes understanding of your own child when taking the decision to take the plunge into GEP pool for the next 2 years. For me, I understand my son is still not 'emotionally stable' in handling friendship ties, bonds. If I were to push him into the GEP pool, if he does not cope well and unable to handle the stress, falling grades, loss of friendship, I'm sure he'll be very miserable.

5) Perhaps the GEP panel should come up with the statistic of PSLE score for GEP kids. Afterall, at the end of the day, it's the PSLE score that will ensure a ticket to good secondary schools.

Hence, considering the above points, we've decided to let our DS to be a happy-go-lucky 9 year old kid enjoying and learning what a typical 9 year old kid learn in the mainstream, and not cramping him with skills/knowledge that are at least 2 years beyond him.
Maybe he can cope/maybe he cannot cope. But we'll worry about that when he is ready to learn these knowledge in secondary school.

For now, my DS is so happy that we respect his decision to stay on in his current school. He cannot wait to break the news to his friends/teachers :)


Point 1 and 2 seems something new in this year’s briefing? Just curious, you mean they invited some parents of ex-GEP students to air their views?

sean wife
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Re: All About GEP

Postby Ruhemut » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:04 pm

Happy70 wrote:
Ruhemut wrote:My DS is a December baby. According to his birth certificate, he was the 37xxxth baby born in 2008. I feel 400 could be a reasonable number in GEP this year.
After the briefing, I am quite excited about the program. I have the feeling that the children will enjoy the program. They need more stimulation than other kids at the moment and the program will stretch their ability. However, it does not mean that they are alway smarter than the rest. Children do not grow at a fixed rate. In the future, other children may catch up or even overtake those who passed the test now. But right now, it is good for them. They will be exposed to more things, broadened knowledge, in depth thinking. Of course, I personally hope they do not have too much homework but more CCA or field trips. These are more valuable than exam marks. If you believe in your kids, they will also be able to do well in PSLE. Just have some faith in them.


I hope all the parents and DC who are excited about the programme do join and enjoy it. My boys did.

It is true that being in the GEP does not translate into being among the top performers in the PSLE. My older son is living proof of that.

There are many things that kids lose marks for during the PSLE -- not using the proper key words in Science open-ended questions, not showing all necessary working or writing the word statements, forgetting to put down the units, transfer errors (the worst kind of mistake! but it happens). And MT -- some kids may be very strong in Eng, Math and Science, but have their T-scores pulled down by MT, which accounts for 25% of the T-score.

In my view, the PSLE tests not only for knowledge in 4 subjects (2 of which don't feature at all in the GEP screening and selection tests) but also meticulousness, diligence in adhering to certain rules and ability to perform with as few careless mistakes as possible. MS and GEP kids who can do all this will do well in the PSLE. GEP kids (who have certain abilities assessed on fixed but limited criteria) who don't might not do as well.

My older boy has learnt that being careless and playful and disregarding the "rules" that he does not agree with does not pay off where the PSLE is concerned. But no regrets; he has matured, become a better person and is doing very well now.

All the best to everyone's DC who are going to take the plunge into the GEP. It is a great programme, I feel.


Thank you for your sharing. Then I feel it is important to ensure the kids acquire good study and exam habits. Otherwise, they might not perform well in PSLE. Furthermore, they also have to learn how to adjust to new environment. In this sense, those from those 9 schools have advantages.

Ruhemut
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Re: All About GEP

Postby Desmo » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:04 pm

sean wife wrote:
Desmo wrote:Thanks for sharing all your thoughts, analysis of the GEP..

Before the GEP briefing, we were 50-50 on letting our DS into the GEP (he of course is stubborn about staying on in his current school)

After the GEP briefing, we decided to let our DS stay in the mainstream school and not entering the GEP program.

Reason are several :
1) There are not many successful GEP cases showcased (apart from interviews of ex GEP students who are now in the profession of prosecutor and another one as director in trade ministry)
I can only assume they are still trying to collate enough successful cases to boost the GEP statistics

2) Q&A. Very interesting views brought up by existing GEP parents who voiced their grievances that their GEP kids are not 'assured' of a ticket to DSA/IP (despite spending lots of time in their studies). GEP kids also are not 'guaranteed' a place in the post-GEP Secondary school.
GEP panel replied by saying and stressing to the parents that GEP kids do not have privilege. They still have to compete with other mainstream kids on the path to DSA.

3) GEP Kids are only switched to mainstream curriculum after P6 term 2. (of course the GEP panel stressed that GEP program is 'enriched upon the mainstream curriculum') They believed the GEP kids should have ample time to 'adjust' themselves and be ready to sit for the PSLE.
I wonder why then the need to 'switch' if all along the GEP program is 'enriched' formula based on the mainstream syllabus.

4) Emotional state of the kid. This takes understanding of your own child when taking the decision to take the plunge into GEP pool for the next 2 years. For me, I understand my son is still not 'emotionally stable' in handling friendship ties, bonds. If I were to push him into the GEP pool, if he does not cope well and unable to handle the stress, falling grades, loss of friendship, I'm sure he'll be very miserable.

5) Perhaps the GEP panel should come up with the statistic of PSLE score for GEP kids. Afterall, at the end of the day, it's the PSLE score that will ensure a ticket to good secondary schools.

Hence, considering the above points, we've decided to let our DS to be a happy-go-lucky 9 year old kid enjoying and learning what a typical 9 year old kid learn in the mainstream, and not cramping him with skills/knowledge that are at least 2 years beyond him.
Maybe he can cope/maybe he cannot cope. But we'll worry about that when he is ready to learn these knowledge in secondary school.

For now, my DS is so happy that we respect his decision to stay on in his current school. He cannot wait to break the news to his friends/teachers :)


Point 1 and 2 seems something new in this year’s briefing? Just curious, you mean they invited some parents of ex-GEP students to air their views?


No, during Q&A, got parents whose elder kid already in GEP and now is their sibling also got selected into this year GEP, so they were there attending the briefing. So this parent was speaking from experience that his elder kid 'lost' out in the race to DSA as his kid 'did not have anything' to show to gain entry into DSA (seems his kid did not participate enough in the competitions or something but has been diligently doing all the challenging stuff required of a GEP kid)

Desmo
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Re: All About GEP

Postby Pen88n » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:21 pm

Desmo wrote:No, during Q&A, got parents whose elder kid already in GEP and now is their sibling also got selected into this year GEP, so they were there attending the briefing. So this parent was speaking from experience that his elder kid 'lost' out in the race to DSA as his kid 'did not have anything' to show to gain entry into DSA (seems his kid did not participate enough in the competitions or something but has been diligently doing all the challenging stuff required of a GEP kid)


To be fair, for DSA to the top-top schools, DSA school panel usually look beyond just pure academics from the kid. Even top in mainstream will have to face the same issue of having to show they have more than academics to support them during DSA. The question is: if the kid has not gotten in GEP and is in mainstream, would he have a better chance to get a DSA offer from this same school? Also, if he had applied for DSA to another school (maybe not the top-top), maybe he has a better chance to get a DSA offer?

Pen88n
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Re: All About GEP

Postby Happy70 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Thank you for your sharing. Then I feel it is important to ensure the kids acquire good study and exam habits. Otherwise, they might not perform well in PSLE. Furthermore, they also have to learn how to adjust to new environment. In this sense, those from those 9 schools have advantages.[/quote]

You're welcome. Yes, it is important for all kids to acquire good study and exam habits to perform well in the PSLE. It may be that MS kids spend more of P4 - P6 focusing and being drilled on PSLE content, common pitfalls and exam technique, while GEP kids are expected to pick this up along the way, over and above the extra stuff that they have to do. At least it seems to me to be that way, as I also have a MS daughter and have seen how she was taught. But not to worry, many GEP kids do pick up exam technique, and yes, the GEP teachers do dwell more on that sort of thing in P6.

Actually, my older boy is in an IP school now, and it seems to me that he is less fazed than some of his friends by the need to perform independent research, self-study (including studying outside the curriculum) and do projects. Most, if not all, IP programmes are enriched programmes -- the purpose of bypassing the O levels is not so that the kids can spend 6 straight years preparing for the A levels or the IB -- rather, the intention is to give the kids more time and space to wander outside the curriculum. So there's a lot of that. And this will not be unfamiliar to most GEP kids.

As for adjusting, both my boys had to adjust to new environments even though they had different experiences.

The older one stayed on in his school (which had a GEP programme) and his class had a good mix of kids from other schools. His best friends all through the 3 years were boys who joined from other schools, even when they were re-grouped into different classes in P5 and P6 (yes, they re-group them so that they can make new friends).

My younger one moved to another GEP school, and has a great mix of friends both from other schools and also from the school that he joined. It seems to me that making friends and adapting don't seem to be huge issues.

Happy70
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Re: All About GEP

Postby jtoh » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:12 pm

Desmo wrote:Thanks for sharing all your thoughts, analysis of the GEP..

Before the GEP briefing, we were 50-50 on letting our DS into the GEP (he of course is stubborn about staying on in his current school)

After the GEP briefing, we decided to let our DS stay in the mainstream school and not entering the GEP program.

Reason are several :
1) There are not many successful GEP cases showcased (apart from interviews of ex GEP students who are now in the profession of prosecutor and another one as director in trade ministry)
I can only assume they are still trying to collate enough successful cases to boost the GEP statistics

You can't expect them to showcase all the successful GEP students in a briefing, nor provide comprehensive statistics. Of the older GEP students from the earlier batches who are working adults, the few I know personally are successful in their chosen careers and are practising medicine, law, and other careers. Of the ones who are currently in university, many are studying medicine, law, or in Oxbridge and Ivy League unis. (I'm not saying that medicine and law are an indication of success, just that of the ones I know many are in medicine and law. )

2) Q&A. Very interesting views brought up by existing GEP parents who voiced their grievances that their GEP kids are not 'assured' of a ticket to DSA/IP (despite spending lots of time in their studies). GEP kids also are not 'guaranteed' a place in the post-GEP Secondary school.
GEP panel replied by saying and stressing to the parents that GEP kids do not have privilege. They still have to compete with other mainstream kids on the path to DSA.

It's been this way for some time since they did away with the secondary school GEP programme. Many do make it back into secondary schools which offer GEP or equivalent. Just that there's no guarantee. And why should there be? GEP isn't a ticket to top schools.

3) GEP Kids are only switched to mainstream curriculum after P6 term 2. (of course the GEP panel stressed that GEP program is 'enriched upon the mainstream curriculum') They believed the GEP kids should have ample time to 'adjust' themselves and be ready to sit for the PSLE.
I wonder why then the need to 'switch' if all along the GEP program is 'enriched' formula based on the mainstream syllabus.

My view on this is that to score at PSLE, you have to give the correct answers in a standard format. The GEP syllabus encourages students to explore deeper and beyond the standard syllabus, where the answers don't have to fall categorically into a marking scheme. So term 3 of P6 GEP helps to rein them back in to give acceptable and standard keywords and answers. Will a GEP student have scored higher if he had stayed in mainstream and studied a syllabus catered for scoring at PSLE and have schools drill them with copious mock exam papers from early P6 (and maybe earlier)? Yes. Probably. If PSLE scores are the end goal of a primary school education, then maybe mainstream is better.

4) Emotional state of the kid. This takes understanding of your own child when taking the decision to take the plunge into GEP pool for the next 2 years. For me, I understand my son is still not 'emotionally stable' in handling friendship ties, bonds. If I were to push him into the GEP pool, if he does not cope well and unable to handle the stress, falling grades, loss of friendship, I'm sure he'll be very miserable.
Understanding your kid is important. If the kid is not ready for GEP, he will not enjoy it and will not be able to reap all the benefits of the programme.

5) Perhaps the GEP panel should come up with the statistic of PSLE score for GEP kids. Afterall, at the end of the day, it's the PSLE score that will ensure a ticket to good secondary schools.

Hence, considering the above points, we've decided to let our DS to be a happy-go-lucky 9 year old kid enjoying and learning what a typical 9 year old kid learn in the mainstream, and not cramping him with skills/knowledge that are at least 2 years beyond him.
Maybe he can cope/maybe he cannot cope. But we'll worry about that when he is ready to learn these knowledge in secondary school.

For now, my DS is so happy that we respect his decision to stay on in his current school. He cannot wait to break the news to his friends/teachers :)
Respect for your kid's decision is important. Good for you.

jtoh
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Re: All About GEP

Postby winnieng78 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:35 am

thanks for all the insight shared! and jtoh, your reply above is very impt - to know the end of of primary school education!

I do not know if she will do better or worse at the end of the day... but we can only encourage her along the way, help her to grow and enjoy the process rather than focus on the marks now.

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Re: All About GEP

Postby jtoh » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:57 am

To add on to my earlier reply, what is the end goal of a primary school education? If it is a high PSLE score that you're looking for, then mainstream education might better prepare a child for it.

I find that the end goal of GEP isn't the student's PSLE score. It's the process of learning, the journey, the exploration into out-of-syllabus work, the freedom to express and question, to conduct independent research... Most definitely a lot of this isn't immediately relevant to PSLE, but it is interesting and helps train the mind and will prepare them for secondary school. Which is why a lot of GEP students find lower secondary relatively smooth sailing.

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