All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Unlike entry to Primary Schools, admission into Secondary Schools is based on meritocracy. PSLE results are used as key admission criteria. Discuss everything related to PSLE and selection of Secondary Schools here.
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floppy
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by floppy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm

Hendon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm
floppy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 am
hb wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:37 am


OT, but this is why people complain every time there are changes to NS...if they had to suffer, why shouldn't the next generation of boys have to suffer too???

I don't think MTL policy should be about pain lah. (After all, there are kids who like Chinese...right??) But I do think MOE's MTL policy is a bit confused. Is it important for kids to take MTL because they should know their ethnic heritage (in which case I can see why MOE allowed kids of mixed parentage to choose their 2nd language), or because it's important to know one of Singapore's national languages (esp since they are in the Singapore public school system)? Allowing kids of mixed parentage to take a different language but imputing a grade of AL6-8 is kind of a weird compromise*, and I can see why parents would be upset about it.

*MTL exemption for kids with learning disabilities is a completely separate thing.
This isn't the same as slavery.

As MOE alluded to, "(the) rationale is grounded in its philosophy of underscoring the importance of studying the MTLs." It's really beyond the simple pursuit of knowledge in a language. MTL is an important (and uniquely Singapore) component of the national identity. If you want a public education, you can't really pick-and-choose the best/better components (EL, Math and Science) and discard the one you are least interested in (MTL). Setting a max imputed score of AL6 as a compromise is probably not the best solution but it is a good start in nudging people with no obvious disability (and those people thinking about it) back in line with the national policy on public education.

I can understand Madam Wee frustration with the changes in the policy. While the details may be "unexpected", the signal to expect changes was raised in July 2016. The main concern seems to be "unfair and pegged too low" compared with the Standard Level subjects resulting in an disadvantage to their children. Seriously, if you are already getting a free pass on a subject, what's the ground to complain about the score being pegged too low?
Funny how people are overanalysing MOE faq. Just ask them!

As for the petition starter, since you brought her up, she is a Singaporean Chinese married to an UK guy, I wonder which language did she opt for her kids
The statement isn't from MOE FAQ. It's MOE response to the press' queries. So yah... they have been asked.

As for the petition starter, she didn't state, nor did she provide insights to why her child was exempted.

coast
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by coast » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:53 pm

floppy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm


The statement isn't from MOE FAQ. It's MOE response to the press' queries. So yah... they have been asked.

As for the petition starter, she didn't state, nor did she provide insights to why her child was exempted.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... t-from-mtl

Madam Wee, whose Primary 3 daughter is studying French, said: "I encouraged my daughter to take up Chinese in kindergarten and Primary 1. And I sent her for classes outside as well. But after one year of struggling in the subject, I realised that she is better off doing French. At least my British husband and I can help her with it."

She said that although there was a new scoring system in the works, she, like many parents, had thought that the MOE would not veer much from the current way of scoring.

"If I had known, I may have made a different decision and perhaps stuck with Chinese," she said.

She and several others are calling for the MOE to stick to the current scoring system for pupils already in primary school.

Said Madam Wee: "Such changes should not be dropped on students in the midst of their curriculum. If such a policy is to be introduced, it should commence from 2023 at the earliest, so that students and parents seeking exemption now have time to consider their options.

Hendon
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by Hendon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:57 pm

floppy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm
Hendon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:12 pm
floppy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 am


This isn't the same as slavery.

As MOE alluded to, "(the) rationale is grounded in its philosophy of underscoring the importance of studying the MTLs." It's really beyond the simple pursuit of knowledge in a language. MTL is an important (and uniquely Singapore) component of the national identity. If you want a public education, you can't really pick-and-choose the best/better components (EL, Math and Science) and discard the one you are least interested in (MTL). Setting a max imputed score of AL6 as a compromise is probably not the best solution but it is a good start in nudging people with no obvious disability (and those people thinking about it) back in line with the national policy on public education.

I can understand Madam Wee frustration with the changes in the policy. While the details may be "unexpected", the signal to expect changes was raised in July 2016. The main concern seems to be "unfair and pegged too low" compared with the Standard Level subjects resulting in an disadvantage to their children. Seriously, if you are already getting a free pass on a subject, what's the ground to complain about the score being pegged too low?
Funny how people are overanalysing MOE faq. Just ask them!

As for the petition starter, since you brought her up, she is a Singaporean Chinese married to an UK guy, I wonder which language did she opt for her kids
The statement isn't from MOE FAQ. It's MOE response to the press' queries. So yah... they have been asked.

As for the petition starter, she didn't state, nor did she provide insights to why her child was exempted.
I was referring to other earlier comments about the FAQ and not by you.

Koaru
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by Koaru » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Extracted from ST,

“Such changes should not be dropped on students in the midst of their curriculum. If such a policy is to be introduced, it should commence from 2023 at the earliest, so that students and parents seeking exemption now have time to consider their options.

MADAM MARIANNE WEE, whose Primary 3 daughter is studying French, as she had struggled with Chinese when she started primary school. The girl's father is British.”

——

Sorry, but to me you can’t have the cake and eat it. MOE should have been more forthcoming with regards to the AL scoring for MTL exemption.. likewise I am very curious to know how the affiliation cut off will be especially for the hot schools. It would be better if these could be announced earlier by 2020.

floppy
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by floppy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

coast wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:53 pm
floppy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm


The statement isn't from MOE FAQ. It's MOE response to the press' queries. So yah... they have been asked.

As for the petition starter, she didn't state, nor did she provide insights to why her child was exempted.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... t-from-mtl

Madam Wee, whose Primary 3 daughter is studying French, said: "I encouraged my daughter to take up Chinese in kindergarten and Primary 1. And I sent her for classes outside as well. But after one year of struggling in the subject, I realised that she is better off doing French. At least my British husband and I can help her with it."

She said that although there was a new scoring system in the works, she, like many parents, had thought that the MOE would not veer much from the current way of scoring.

"If I had known, I may have made a different decision and perhaps stuck with Chinese," she said.

She and several others are calling for the MOE to stick to the current scoring system for pupils already in primary school.

Said Madam Wee: "Such changes should not be dropped on students in the midst of their curriculum. If such a policy is to be introduced, it should commence from 2023 at the earliest, so that students and parents seeking exemption now have time to consider their options.
Thanks for the info. Freaking paywall for the 151st ranked press :lol:

Now that more info has been provided, I am curious and interested to know, why MOE would grant an exemption to a child with an ENGLISH father and a CHINESE mother? Because the poor child is uninterested and struggling with Chinese? So let's do French? Seriously, like WTF? I can understand for slacefy's case given that the child have a GERMAN father and a CHINESE mother would like to opt for German but when the other case, it's not even a language of either the father or mother :?


Hendon
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by Hendon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:43 pm

Let’s focus on the fact she is not just Chinese but a Singaporean. So by marrying a non Singaporean her kids then get to drop MTL?

zac's mum
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoringn System

Post by zac's mum » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 pm

Maybe I might sympathize with them if their kids really do go through the same onerous exams and sit for full PSLE papers as our rigorous MTL requirements. Eg petition MOE to set such PSLE papers that require writing full compositions etc in French/German/whatever language in lieu they want.

But they don’t seem to be fighting for that. They are fighting to be allocated high scores for merely showing up at weekly lessons (is attendance even monitored?)

cherrygal
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by cherrygal » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:08 pm

slmkhoo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm

There is a 3rd group - those who get exemption because they have spent several years in a foreign education system and are judged to have insufficient time to catch up in time for PSLE. Eg. a child who has studied overseas in a situation where parents and school are unable to help him keep up with MTL, and only returns to Singapore in P4, say. Perhaps MOE could be more understanding to these kids as it is really very hard to have to make the switch to Singapore requirements in the other subjects while coping with the re-entry transition, and also have to learn a 2nd language pretty much from scratch. Or at least, for such kids who return later, eg. after P2.
Both parents are SG Chinese. No way to find MTL tutor in those countries? Oz USA Japan etc all have such language teachers available. Unless you are talking about postings to undeveloped nations. We have to send our kids to MTL tuition in SG too.

I think it's good that MOE is sending a message that MTL is important.

cherrygal
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by cherrygal » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:13 pm

lee_yl wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:25 pm

Under current tscore system, are there children exempted from MTL, who managed to get into IP via t-score?
Yes. We have some forummers who used this exemption to enter IP schools.

Hardwarezone SKenny also said his son got his exemption due to being overseas for 2 years and managed to get into IP school thanks to the exemption and pegging. No need to worry about MTL in secondary school too.

phtthp
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Re: All About PSLE AL Scoring System

Post by phtthp » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:24 pm

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Last edited by phtthp on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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