Express or Normal Academic

[blissful mummy]

Hi Ms Liew, thanks for sharing the positive achievements of NA students. I’m trying to find more info too, so I can share with my DD as she is very concerned that her chances to do well in O levels will be affected if she chose NA.

My husband is also concerned that there might be more disruptive behaviour in NA classrooms which would affect lesson delivery, as my DD focuses and learns better in a quieter / more conducive environment where students are more well behaved. Of course, we understand that in a tail end Express class, the same might be expected. Not sure how is the actual situation in the classroom.
I’ve read that some schools have excellent discipline and students in NA classes are also motivated so I’m trying to read up on which are these schools so we could consider them too.

[blissful mummy]

Hi MissyYJ, thanks for sharing.

Would you mind elaborating on how your experience had been in class?

Did you think the teachers were focused on ensuring you excel in O levels?

Did you struggle in Sec 5 while preparing for O levels because of the different expectations in the writing style and question types or did you find it reasonably doable?

What was your greatest challenge in secondary school?

If you have to start all over, will you choose the same path or choose to start from Express, and why?

Thanks very much!

[Liew Nga Wing]

Hi Ms Liew, thanks for sharing the positive achievements of NA students. I’m trying to find more info too, so I can share with my DD as she is very concerned that her chances to do well in O levels will be affected if she chose NA.

My husband is also concerned that there might be more disruptive behaviour in NA classrooms which would affect lesson delivery, as my DD focuses and learns better in a quieter / more conducive environment where students are more well behaved. Of course, we understand that in a tail end Express class, the same might be expected. Not sure how is the actual situation in the classroom.
I’ve read that some schools have excellent discipline and students in NA classes are also motivated so I’m trying to read up on which are these schools so we could consider them too.

Whether your DD want to go for O level or NA level? If she have the confidence that she can cope with O level then why not let her try?

[blissful mummy]

Hi Ms Liew, my daughter wishes to go for O levels, and to start with Express stream. I am more than happy to support her, but feel worried as some are suggesting that the schools (the list I had shortlisted) she could qualify for are not desirable.

[MissyYJ]

Hi MissyYJ, thanks for sharing.

Would you mind elaborating on how your experience had been in class?

Did you think the teachers were focused on ensuring you excel in O levels?

Did you struggle in Sec 5 while preparing for O levels because of the different expectations in the writing style and question types or did you find it reasonably doable?

What was your greatest challenge in secondary school?

If you have to start all over, will you choose the same path or choose to start from Express, and why?

Thanks very much!

Hi Blissful mummy,

I guess you are referring to my NA class? My NA class majority was boys, there was only 12 girls. Total around 40 students. Note, this is only for my class though, the other 2 NA classes was equal. Boys being boys, they can be rowdy and loud.. but not to the extent of disturbing the class.

I was in the SBB pilot programme for maths. My O level maths teacher really put in lot of efforts and I approached her almost every other day for help. I wasn't strong on Maths.

I did not struggle in O levels as I was a consistent student in secondary school. I cleared my doubts regularly and consistently revise my work, especially in Secondary 3 and 4. It is important to understand the concepts well and apply them to the questions. My teachers were helpful and we do approach them after class for consultations.

The greatest challenge is English. My English has been poor and I did not have a strong foundation in that. This was also my biggest struggle in O levels. Other subjects is fine.

Well, given a choice I might re-think my decision to join the Express stream at the end of Secondary 2. I was given the choice for a lateral transfer but I opted to stay in NA. The main reason is for my poor command in English.
I do not have any external support like tuition; that form part of the reason not to go ahead with the transfer.

I can share with you a story, my classmate who went ahead for the lateral transfer from NA to Express at the end of Sec 2. After 6 month in Sec 3 Express - taking 7 subjects; consisting of EL,CL,E Maths,A Maths, Pure Physics, Pure Chemistry and Combined Hum ; she transferred back to NA.
I did spoke to her as she was my former classmate. She mentioned it was so tough and she couldn't handled it. I am not too sure if she have any tuition back then.

It seem to me that you are deciding between NA or Express stream for your child ?

I hope my sharing helps you to decide for your child.

Cheers

[blissful mummy]

Hi MissyYJ, really appreciate your time to share your experience as well as what your classmate had experienced. This has offered me invaluable insights.
It’s reassuring to know that you were able to cope without much external help (tuition). I will have to research more (look at the websites of the schools) and have more honest conversations with my daughter to confirm her commitment. Have a blessed weekend ahead

[Ruchioko]

My child scored AL21 for PSLE.
I am also in dilemma on choosing the right school, with 3 subjects of AL5 that able to study O Level via SBB.
@blissfulmummy what are your list of choice and which stream your girl going?

[floppy]

Hi Floppy, thanks for your advice.

My concern is not whether it is an extra year but whether the schools in general are genuine in helping students in NA to promote to 5NA and the resources offered to these students to be well prepared.

I understand that a number of schools encourage their students to proceed to PFP or ITE at the end of Sec 4NA. Some forummers have shared their unhappy experiences where the teachers keep reminding them to register for ITE, rather than continue to complete their O levels in Sec 5. As I hope to allow my DD the avenue to achieve her dreams, taking O levels is something we consider as important.

Another concern I have is something I keep hearing about, that the gap between Sec 4NA and O levels sets the NA students back. In contrast, for students to start from Express in Sec 1 means that they’re geared for O levels from the onset. I’m not in the secondary education system so I’m just depending on what I gather online from parents and teachers. Just a very worried mum who wants to be as supportive to my DD in her secondary school journey and her pursuit of her passion.

You mentioned you’d only consider Springfield. May I request you to share more about the schools I’ve listed? Is there anything that I should know about? Thanks.

Let's be honest.
Even if the school throws in the kitchen sink to help the students in 5NA, what do you think their results will be like? Are they ever going to better the students of schools in the < AL15? Are they even likely to do better than the Express students within the same school?

From a parent's POV, I can understand why we think school / teachers should do all possible to help. Unfortunately, we are living in a meritocratic society and meritocracy is a double-edged sword. Given the finite number of resources, it's a difficult but understandable decision for school to allocate resource to areas where there is a better likelihood of a reasonable return. Having a dream is great but there is a point where we have to assess whether that dream is possible and achievable (p/s: I can totally understand why not everyone can be pragmatic and share the same viewpoint).

Secondly, why is there this fascination with Express and O Level? Unless you intend to stop school after 16yo (like my parents' generation), O Level is never the end game. So, what's your end game? Uni? Poly? (I don't think anyone has ever said ITE.) Begin with the end in mind. What's the most effective way of getting there? If you haven't been thinking about it, or doesn't know, you may want to consider a path that is the most flexible and offers you the most option.

IMHO, if you are thinking of local university, picking Express -> O Level based on the current set of options, will offer you the least chance of success. While students who start from Express in Sec 1 are geared for O levels, no offence to the schools listed, how many of their students successfully made it to JC and then to local university, and more importantly, at a uni course they desire?

If JC isn't the 'right' route to university, and poly is the option, will your O Level result gets you the course you want? Can NA offer you an advantage in choosing the course you desire? Are you aware that COP for many popular poly courses based on O Level's ELR2B2 (5 subjects) are < 15 points?

PFP is currently, IMHO, a big loophole / feature in the system whereby NA students have a big, distinct advantage. I can think of no other point in our education system whereby we asked the most able of our 'weakest' student to go first. Meritocracy demands that the strongest be given the pick, but here's a backdoor that is being kept open. Hence, it absolutely makes sense that teachers should push their NA students to sign up for it.

I will consider Springfield as my number 1 choice for express (from among the choices you have listed) because I think the school is decent and students reasonably behaved. That said, I don't think there's a lot of differences between the schools that you have listed.

However, if I'm picking for NA, Temasek would probably be the top of my list.

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[tulips02]

Let's be honest.
...

HI Floppy,

Can you help to elaborate why NA student have a big advantage for PFP? If they choose PFP, the score have to be less than 12 compare to O Level students who need score less than 15. This is the part I'm not so sure about.
That does mean there will be no GEC O-level for PFP students?

[floppy]

HI Floppy,

Can you help to elaborate why NA student have a big advantage for PFP? If they choose PFP, the score have to be less than 12 compare to O Level students who need score less than 15. This is the part I'm not so sure about.
That does mean there will be no GEC O-level for PFP students?

Under normal JAE whereby students are using their O Level results, the field is wide open. The NA students would have to compete with their more academically inclined counterparts from the Express stream. That may put them at a disadvantage as posting is purely by results. IMHO, 12 or better at N level to qualify for some of the more popular courses may be more achievable than 15 or better at O Level, especially so if you are a reasonable strong (academically) NA student.

PFP is, effectively, trading Sec 5 in secondary school for an extra year / early start in Poly (year 0). It’s like a poly through train programme for NA students only. As a result, they don’t do O Level (but to remain in the programme and continue to year 1, have to pass all the modules). You don’t lose / gain a year but you will spend a year working on foundation courses which are essential to doing well in poly / diploma course. By the time you reach year 1 (when everyone starts), you have a year of poly experience and relevant knowledge under your belt. You are starting from a position of strength compared to other year 1 (Express / O Level), not weakness and don’t have to play catch-up with your academics anymore.